slant six MPG build e 85

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travisschroer

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ok so here is the deal i just finished getting my 225 rebuilt so its going to be a driver again so i want to build a extra motor and balance power with economy
so this is what im thinking

170ci
10.5 to 1 cr
big valves (1.75 and 1.5)
hei style ign control
mpfi (mega squirt I)
intercooled turbo (6 psi for street 15 for track)
E85 with meth injection
balanced to 8k
and a a833 od if i can find one or a T5

goals are 35mpg freeway and 25 city with ~400hp

any ideas or sugestions and why (kinda a open forum thing just getting more ideas)
 
ok so here is the deal i just finished getting my 225 rebuilt so its going to be a driver again so i want to build a extra motor and balance power with economy
so this is what im thinking

170ci
10.5 to 1 cr
big valves (1.75 and 1.5)
hei style ign control
mpfi (mega squirt I)
intercooled turbo (6 psi for street 15 for track)
E85 with meth injection
balanced to 8k
and a a833 od if i can find one or a T5

goals are 35mpg freeway and 25 city with ~400hp

any ideas or sugestions and why (kinda a open forum thing just getting more ideas)

Just some thoughts here...

In the first place, if you want 400 horsepower, using a 170 is like getting into a fistfight with one hand tied behind your back. That much stress on a little motor like that is begging for problems. Use a 225... much LESS stress to achieve your desired 400 hp.

E-85 has so much less energy, the mileage will suffer greatly when compared with gasoline.... something like 30-percent, so if mileage is your goal, E-85 is probably the worst thing you could use.

Running a 10.5 compression ratio AND forced induction is not a very good idea, it seems to me, because of possible detonation problems (even with E-85's high octane.) I was told recently, that the E-85 that comes out of service station gas pumps is of a horribly inconsistent mix, and you cannot depend on the octane, because it may be E-85 one time and E-71 the next. That wouldn't work very well. Unless you want to mix your own fuel, it sounds pretty iffy to me... But you CAN buy it in barrells that are pre-tested and have a guarnteed correct 85% ratio, but that seems like a lot of trouble to go to for a daily driver (which I assume this to be, since you're interested in "mileage.")

All this is just MY OPINION, and I am surely not an expert in any way, on /6 turbos, but from what I have read on here and the /6.org site, turbos work well when "held back," and I think a 904/999 lockup-converter transmission might actually be a better deal for you, seeing as how the constant drag through the gear changes would keep your turbo spooled, and your top gear would still be 1:1, (unless you run an overdrive 4-speed,) with no slippage, dut to the lockup converter.

But, trying to get 400 horsepower out of a 170 for the street, would indeed require some high rpm that wouldn't give you the kind of reliability and drivability that a street car needs to have.

Do it with a lower-revving 225... and you'll have a more long-term maintenance-free machine, I think.

Just my 2-cents:salute:
 
goals are 35mpg freeway and 25 city with ~400hp

Not gonna happen with a slant-6 engine of any description, unless you spend such an enormous amount of money that you'll never even come close to getting it back even at double those fuel economy figures.
 
A slant getting 35 mpg is not going to be easy. And it MAY cost alot. I do believe a well built turbo set up will get you better mpg. Theres some info on the web that a turbo MAY get you 3-6 mpg better than a non turbo car. So I think a goal of 30 mpg is better.
 
well my figuring was by using e85 i could take advantage of the extra octane to make up for the lost economy (ie lose i belive 27% thermal energy but make up by have a cr to make up for some losses) also was hoping by building a more effiecient burning engine i could keep rpms lower ( will be running a OD) and further help mpg.

i know its a horrible comparison but there is a honda prelude in town running 11-1 and 8psi on e 85. i was under the assumption i may be able to do the same or a little lower( i understand the head on the honda is a better design) and we only have 1 station currently with e85 and the owner guarantees its within 5+/-

and i was figuring the 170 would have been a better choice due to rpm? so you could build a high horsepower engine and just keep the rpm low when just driving? dan what do you think would be a good number for hp? i know you have a ton of experiance with the s6.

thanks for the input guys
 
What you want is torque. Running up into the fat part of the torque curve for acceleration, then backing off gives the best fuel economy.

Cubic inches make torque. Volume makes torque.

Use a 225, and back the compression down to a max of 9:1. Then stuff the heck out of it with a turbo. 12 to 15 psi as a daily driver is ok if you are going to run E85.

When you get into turbos, you need to start to think in mass air flow. Pounds of air per minute. If you can get to the point of stuffing 45 pounds of air in that engine per minute, along with 4.5 pounds of fuel - you will have as much power as you can stand.

I second the auto trans idea, I always had good results with a turbo that was loaded that way.

Good luck with your project.

B.
 
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