Slant six turbo cost analysis: 300 hp

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if you are starting out then going with the 4bbl intake is the way to go. like you said most of the time they are only $25-$50 more then the 2bbl. depending on your car there may not be hood clearance to run an adapter plate and a carb hat. i know i ran into the problem of the carb hat hitting the hood without an adapter. on another note you could always run a 4bbl and just disconnect the secondaries. i did that while tuning and the power difference between the 2 and 4bbl wasnt much. all things to consider. there is no one way to do all of this. there are so many combinations and possibilities its staggering.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
i slid the 2.5" v-band onto the adapter as far as it would go, welded it and cut off the extra pupe that what was sticking out. its a nice clean setup and it lets the turbo breath. sounds good too. just to get you started so you can cruise around a little bit on low boost, the stock pump will work. just keep an eye on your afr gauge when it spools. and keep at or below 8psi.

here is my build http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54407&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 its kinda step by step but not exactly. if you have any questions dont be afraid to ask.
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Thanks for sharing your post. I was up until 3AM reading it last night :)
Answered some questions and made me aware of other issues to look out for.

Mike
 
RustyPlymouth said:
what ever i can do to turn people onto this setup. i laugh like a little kid every time i drive my car. the power is ridiculous. is still cant believe it is coming from a slant.
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AND, because of the pitifull cylinder head and the pathetic performance coming out of most "built" natually-aspirated slant sixes, the turbocharged slant six is a too-well-kept secret.

Folks see how much money has been spent on all the usual bells and whistles, in an attempt to go fast, and the poor results, and the slant six is thereafter, avoided by rodders at all costs.

Enter forced induction; it's a whole new world, but nobody learns about it....

Sad...But, WE know.... LOL!:blob: Ryan Peterson and Tom Wolfe showed the way...

I am just trying to follow in their trail-blazing, (500hp) footsteps :cheers:
 

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RustyPlymouth said:
cxracing has a line of gt35's that are sized right for a slant. they are american engineered and china built. they stand behind their turbos and have a good customer base. their turbos seem to hold up pretty well. .
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Is that what you are running now? I've looked at this company, but can't find anyone with firsthand experience.

And Bill, you're doing a good job of making sure everyone knows! lol
 
Brandon Weaver said:
Is that what you are running now? I've looked at this company, but can't find anyone with firsthand experience.

And Bill, you're doing a good job of making sure everyone knows! lol
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no im not. i am running some cheap ebay crap for right now. it got my setup together, pulled pretty good while it lasted and was cheap. just picked up a hx35 and a h1c for $125 for both today. think im gonna run the h1c and see what that does. the hx could use a kit but is in really good condition, just not as good as the h1c.

if you go to www.theturboforums.com there are a bunch of people running just about all of their turbos. for as many people that are running them the complaints are few and far between. its a good site for turbo info as well. learned a lot of good stuff there.
 
what are the specs on your turbo bill? looks to be close to the size of the monsters i just picked up.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
what are the specs on your turbo bill? looks to be close to the size of the monsters i just picked up.
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Junior.
For all my relentless motor-mouthing about turbo this, and turbo that, I am an ignorant know-NOTHING about turbo sizing. The fact is, this turbocharger was GIVEN to me and my then-partner (Freddie Nielsen,) by a friend who runs turbo Buick V-6's, and is identical to the one on his car. It is a 66mm unit (intake-size) and beyond that, and that it is a 4 bolt-flange Turbonetics, with an external wastegate, I have no clue. His Buick has about the same displacement as my slant 6, and his car runs mid 10's, so it must not be too far "off, size=wise"

I am sorry to be so ignorant and of so little help, but I am also new at this forced induction game, having spent a lifetime hopping up various naturally-aspirated V-8's.... got bored with them and wanted to try something AA Different....

For all my lack of knowledge, I am having a ton of fun, and am about to have a LOT more, since I now have a way to get this pile of nuts and bolts to and from the drag strip. Never had a trailer before. ever, and I am going to thoroughly enjoy it!!!:cheers:

Here it is, along with the Buick I referred to...
 

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Brandon Weaver said:
Is that what you are running now? I've looked at this company, but can't find anyone with firsthand experience.

And Bill, you're doing a good job of making sure everyone knows! lol
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Brandon, I just spent about 20 hours emailing an editor at one of the Mopar magazines, explaining in detail, and as simply as I could, exactly WHY he doesn't get any enthusiastic response from the slant six articles he has run in the past. As we know, the output of the motor is reflected in the flow numbers exhibited by the head. The head (the ONLY ONE available, EVER,) is incapable of supplying the volume of air needed to make much horsepower, no matter how much you massage it, treat it to wonderfully-engineered induction systems, and cam it up to the nines... IT JUST WON'T RUN!!!

Naturally-aspirated, that is.

I asked him point blank, had he EVER run an article on a turbocharged slant six of ANY KIND.... ever, in the history of the magazine...

The silence was deafening.

See, nobody knows about this... It really IS, the best-kept secret in hot rodding.


It's like trying to stand rope on end to change that...

After pointing out that Ryan Peterson's 66 Valiant can flat outrun a 707 horsepower HELLCAT in a drag race, and that if the Hellcat made as much horsepower per cubic inch as Ryan's 50-year-old economy car, it would be advertised at 835 horsepower, not 707... he still wasn't impressed. Ryan's engine isn't a fluke..... Tom Wolfe's motor makes virtually as much power, with the same equipment on board.... a flat-tappet cam, one 4bbl, a stock-type distributor, and a 5,500 rpm redline.

This ISN'T rocket science. but it is not commonly known, and that is why slant sixes are a ho-hum engine for people who are unaware of all this.

Maybe we should just be happy that we have discovered the secret of making a lot of power with not a lot of speed equipment on this motor...

It certainly was NOT ME, who discovered this wonderful information. Tom Wolfe and Ryan Peterson blazed the trail for all of us, and for that, I will be forever in their debt!!!

I think we all will...:prayer::prayer::prayer:

Just a reminder...
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QzUfV8iTpQ"]Turbo Slant Six 10.74 @ 127 mph 7-19-10 - YouTube[/ame]

and just as impressive at 500-pounds heavier

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAxRmoDgsdY"]Turbo charged Slant 6 11.02 @ 120.56 - YouTube[/ame]

Enjoy...:coffee2:
 
Ryan's valiant is what started it all for me years ago. i was intimidated by all of the information needed to put one of these things together. i also wasnt capable of turning a wrench at the level i am now. after years of homework i dove in. if i can get anywhere close to what that thing does ill be pretty darn happy.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
Ryan's valiant is what started it all for me years ago. i was intimidated by all of the information needed to put one of these things together. i also wasnt capable of turning a wrench at the level i am now. after years of homework i dove in. if i can get anywhere close to what that thing does ill be pretty darn happy.
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Me too, but Tom Wolfe made it all possible for me and Freddie. He did any number of very important things for us, like building us a deep pan, modifying a carburetor's circuits for blow thru operation, recommending what pistons and rods to use, and telling us where to buy them...In short, he made it possible for us to do this without going down countless blind alleys, saving us precious time and money.

We could NOT have done this wihout him.

Thanks, Tom!!!!:cheers:

Not everyone is as lucky as Freddie and I were, though, so I thought that if I could convince just ONE Mopar magazine editor to run a "how-to" series on building a slant six for boost, it might start the ball rolling.

Doesn't look like that is going to happen, though. Mopar Muscle ran one slant six article about four month ago and promised a series of three, implying that they would be forthcoming in the next issues, but they have not shown up, and it's been several months, now, with no mention of said series. I am doubtful that they would have breached the subject of forced induction, anyway, since those guys seem blissfully unaware of what is possible.

Their idea of excitement is to shoehorn a 500 cubic inch RB stroker motor into an A Body, something that has been done to death...


Unbelievable....:twisted:
 
I think it would take a sponsor of a major component of a turbo build to make an article happen in a magazine.

Perhaps Molnar rods or Wiseco pistons running some advertisements would make it happen. Gotta have sponsors :(

Mike

Bill Dedman said:
Not everyone is as lucky as Freddie and I were, though, so I thought that if I could convince just ONE Mopar magazine editor to run a "how-to" series on building a slant six for boost, it might start the ball rolling.

Doesn't look like that is going to happen, though. Mopar Muscle ran one slant six article about four month ago and promised a series of three, implying that they would be forthcoming in the next issues, but they have not shown up, and it's been several months, now, with no mention of said series. I am doubtful that they would have breached the subject of forced induction, anyway, since those guys seem blissfully unaware of what is possible.

Their idea of excitement is to shoehorn a 500 cubic inch RB stroker motor into an A Body, something that has been done to death...


Unbelievable....:twisted:
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CichliDart said:
I think it would take a sponsor of a major component of a turbo build to make an article happen in a magazine.

Perhaps Molnar rods or Wiseco pistons running some advertisements would make it happen. Gotta have sponsors :(

Mike
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It's not a bolt it on and go process, so they won't be interested. Magazines sell things people can bolt on in a weekend. Most of them anyhow.
 
killnine said:
It's not a bolt it on and go process, so they won't be interested. Magazines sell things people can bolt on in a weekend. Most of them anyhow.
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I would put money On Serj22 doing it in a weekend.:cheers:

I understand what you are saying and yes, much of it is geared to weekend bolt ons. Freiberger might be interested but then he has to meet marketing demands as well.

Maybe if we joined in with Bill's efforts to get a Turbo Slant article article it would come across their radar.

Mike
 
CichliDart said:
I would put money On Serj22 doing it in a weekend.:cheers:

I understand what you are saying and yes, much of it is geared to weekend bolt ons. Freiberger might be interested but then he has to meet marketing demands as well.

Maybe if we joined in with Bill's efforts to get a Turbo Slant article article it would come across their radar.

Mike
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The one guy who probably has some clout, and would understand the reasoning behind the article is Steve Dulchich. He has a comprehensive understanding of the Mopar religion, and slant sixes in general (with a LOT of experience.)

He had an aluminum slant six with an ALUMINUM head... (don't ask...)

The unfortunate part is, as far as I know he has mostly been a freelancer, writing for a whole bevy of magazines. Unfortunately, I don't know what he is doing, now, much less, how to contact him.

If we could gain his interest, HE might be the one to actually make something happen.

Here is an article that shows the pure folly of trying to make meaningful power with a naturally-aspirated slant six: It appeared about EIGHT YEARS AGO in a Mopar Muscle,,, and they were proud to get 300 hp.... after moving the earth off its axis to get it... A monumental waste of time.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0602_chrysler_slant_six_engine/viewall.html

The lengths they went to to get a measly 300 hp were extensive and time-consuming, with no small amount of engineering derring-do.

Tom Wolfe made that much horsepower with a STOCK slant six that had never had the head removed (as I remember, it had over 100.000-miles on it when the turbo was added.)

It ran 12.98 at a little over a hundred mph with ONLY the addition of a Buick GN turbo, a 4bbl manifold and a Holley 4bbl. on the (otherwise) stock motor. That takes about 300 horsepower...

The two example of 500hp slants I keep talking about, have very little in the way of mechanical sophistication... they have flat tappet cams, 9:1 compression, carburetion (not fuel injection) and make all their power below 5,500 rpm.

The secret is 28 pounds of boost, which the mighty slant six can live with!

I LOVE this motor....:violent1:
 
just got the h1c on and took it for a blast. (got the turbo for $50 and a rebuild kit for $65 its a t3 flange and bolted on to the majority of the setup i already had. had to change the oil feed fitting) tried setting my wastegate but messed up somewhere. pushed 20psi. seat of the pants and it trying to spin in 3rd says its well over 300hp. a little work on the tune and it will probably get better.
 
Bill Dedman said:
Here is an article that shows the pure folly of trying to make meaningful power with a naturally-aspirated slant six: It appeared about EIGHT YEARS AGO in a Mopar Muscle,,, and they were proud to get 300 hp.... after moving the earth off its axis to get it... A monumental waste of time.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0602_chrysler_slant_six_engine/viewall.html

The lengths they went to to get a measly 300 hp were extensive and time-consuming, with no small amount of engineering derring-do.

The secret is 28 pounds of boost, which the mighty slant six can live with!

I LOVE this motor....:violent1:
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Bill, I understand where you are coming from in saying that they only made 320 horse, but that's thinking in decent cube v8 terms. That is roughly 1.37hp per cid from a severely strangled 225(234). To even begin to get the same numbers with a v8, would be similar to building a 380 horse 273.

In short, yes, a slant can be blistering fast. It takes 28 lbs of boost and a lot of money to make one run on v8 hp levels though. Throw almost 30 pounds of boost on ANYTHING and you automatically have a rocketship.
 
the point is that for less then the cost of machine work alone (in most areas) on a 320hp slant, you can already be driving a 300+hp slant.
 
Funny thing is, most of the turbo slant six builds, go on for EVER, with tuning issues ect, and ONE big proponent of building a turbo slant, has been working on one for YEARS and it still has yet to make a pass....... the slant is NOT a performance secret....its a durable bread and butter engine built to last. 28 pounds of boost would make anything faster. But your miles ahead to stick with what works. Talking about how poor of a head design is on the slant, then calling it a performance secret by installing a turbo and trying to make it work for years, sorta proves it to be a poor idea.
 
I recognize the thread is about the engine. But I think some information about the rest of the powertrain should be thrown in for perspective since its an important part of the feasability equation. From what I understand, its heavily in favor of the slant.

On another note (pun intended), the sound of a slant may play a role in its limited acceptance by hot rodders.
 
i put my setup together in spring. been to the track a couple times. its pretty well tuned. my problem now is getting the power to the ground. just like with anything you get out of it what you put into it.

the ones that seem to linger on are the turbo slant race cars. but that is understandable. race cars often take a back burner when life gets in the way. **** happens.
 
Idaho said:
I recognize the thread is about the engine. But I think some information about the rest of the powertrain should be thrown in for perspective since its an important part of the feasability equation. From what I understand, its heavily in favor of the slant.

On another note (pun intended), the sound of a slant may play a role in its limited acceptance by hot rodders.
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some kind of sure grip, highway gears are preferable. if you have an automatic in good shape you should be good to go. for a manual 4 spd or better is a good rule.
 
Brandon Weaver said:
Bill, I understand where you are coming from in saying that they only made 320 horse, but that's thinking in decent cube v8 terms. That is roughly 1.37hp per cid from a severely strangled 225(234). To even begin to get the same numbers with a v8, would be similar to building a 380 horse 273.
But, I wasn't comparing it to a V8. I was comparing it to a turbocharged slant six. The whole idea was, that spending time and money on a naturally aspirated slant six will never get you anywhere near the 500+ hp that Tom Wolfe and Ryan Peterson achieved with boost.
In short, yes, a slant can be blistering fast. It takes 28 lbs of boost and a lot of money to make one run on v8 hp levels though. Throw almost 30 pounds of boost on ANYTHING and you automatically have a rocketship.
No, throw almost 30 pounds of boost on most V8s, and you'll likely be picking your short block's reciprocating assembly up off the ground. How many V8s have you seen that can survive 28 pounds of boost?

The whole concept of the turbocharged slant six is based on its Diesel-like infrastructure, which is what it us, because it was originally designed to be an aluminum engine, but that got changed, and when it did, Ma Mopar didn't make any significant changes to the load-bearing members of the block in terms of making them less stout, just because they would now, be cast iron. They were left as-is... so, we have a forged steel crank with main bearings the size of a 426 Hemi's and a block and head with unusually-robust construction.... that makes it possible to run boost-levels that would reduce my 360 Magnum to a pile of scrap metal. THAT is the rationale behind the turbocharged slant six...QUOTE]
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Bill Dedman said:
The one guy who probably has some clout, and would understand the reasoning behind the article is Steve Dulchich. He has a comprehensive understanding of the Mopar religion, and slant sixes in general (with a LOT of experience.)

He had an aluminum slant six with an ALUMINUM head... (don't ask...)

The unfortunate part is, as far as I know he has mostly been a freelancer, writing for a whole bevy of magazines. Unfortunately, I don't know what he is doing, now, much less, how to contact him.

If we could gain his interest, HE might be the one to actually make something happen.

Here is an article that shows the pure folly of trying to make meaningful power with a naturally-aspirated slant six: It appeared about EIGHT YEARS AGO in a Mopar Muscle,,, and they were proud to get 300 hp.... after moving the earth off its axis to get it... A monumental waste of time.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0602_chrysler_slant_six_engine/viewall.html

The lengths they went to to get a measly 300 hp were extensive and time-consuming, with no small amount of engineering derring-do.

Tom Wolfe made that much horsepower with a STOCK slant six that had never had the head removed (as I remember, it had over 100.000-miles on it when the turbo was added.)

It ran 12.98 at a little over a hundred mph with ONLY the addition of a Buick GN turbo, a 4bbl manifold and a Holley 4bbl. on the (otherwise) stock motor. That takes about 300 horsepower...

The two example of 500hp slants I keep talking about, have very little in the way of mechanical sophistication... they have flat tappet cams, 9:1 compression, carburetion (not fuel injection) and make all their power below 5,500 rpm.

The secret is 28 pounds of boost, which the mighty slant six can live with!

I LOVE this motor....:violent1:
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In reference to post 34: Dead on the money: Unless it's a possibly popular bolt on, ( aka aftermarket kit), most editors nowadays write, they don't wrench... The problem with magazine editors anymore, they don't get dirty. As for Steve Dulich : He was still editing Enginemasters quarterly publication. David Freiburger hired him for Car Craft tech editor, late 90's E,mail his ***, he loves off the wall stuff.
 
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