Small block + 4 speed build

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Miszny

Miszny

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Hi Everyone

It's yet another winter engine build. This time what I have on the table is 360 block, Trick Flow 190 heads, Mancini Racing aluminium rockers with 5/16 cut to fit pushrods and 4" Molnar stroker crankshaft. Unfortunately the only intake I have is Performer rpm air gap, thinking about getting single plane for this.
Plan is to build something that will last on the street and will have some balls. Vacuum for brakes in not important as this is manual brakes car.
I'm shooting for 11-11.5:1 static compression to run premium pump gas (98 octane european) and to be able to use good size cam in it.
I was thinking to go with either solid flat tappet or hyd roller with solid lifters (done that ofthen with very good results).
The car has 3.73 sure grip rear end in it and will use steet 28" tire, there are also 3.55 gears ready to be used as an option.

I need to focus on 4 things now:
- pistons choice
- camshaft choice
- intake choice
- carburetor choice

There will be some nitrous used, but only 150-200 shot to have some fun, this is why I was only looking at forged pistons, guestion is if I really need to?

About cam, I was looking at something 245-255 intake duration at .050 with 108 lsa, good lift to take advantage of the heads and maybye 7000 rpm redline to enjoy that small block soundtrack.

When it comes to carb, I'm tempted to use new Edelbrock VRS 4150, I suppose 850 would work well here but at this time only 750 is available. If not, its probably going to be some 850 double pumper type of carb.

Counting on you guys to help me take some good decissions here! Thanks!
 
What's wrong with the Air Gap other than nothing? I like it for this, especially on the street.
 
RustyRatRod said:
What's wrong with the Air Gap other than nothing? I like it for this, especially on the street.
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I wanted this thing to redline at 7000... I'm usually using rpm intake on things that dont see more than 6500. Another thing is that dual plane favors low end torque, and with stroker I will have plenty of torque, was thining about having peak power and torque a bit higher in rpm range. I like what ported victor intake does with these strokers.
 
I'm sure someone on here would love to have that air gap so you can order you one of those trick flow intakes....
 
Kendog 170 said:
Won't retarding the cam give you more on the big end as well ? Just a thought.
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No cam yet for this so all is on the table, rpm intake can be sold in 5 minuters if needed.
Im just thinking what to do here thats all. I have more experience with big block stuff. Built some 4" crank small blocks and frankly im impressed with what you get out of it so wanted to take the opportunity and make another fun engine :)
 
Mtrhead said:
I'm sure someone on here would love to have that air gap so you can order you one of those trick flow intakes....
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Does trick flow cnc match their intake to heads they are selling? I never had trick flow intake in my hands...
 
Dunno....nice first edition M1 first sale too...
 
Based on what you are saying it sounds like a bad *** street car with a stick, what are you wanting to make for hp?.
 
lead69 said:
Based on what you are saying it sounds like a bad *** street car with a stick, what are you wanting to make for hp?.
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Probably 500-550 area. If there is more on the table I will not complain ;-)
 
in this case a wider LSA is possibly the better solution. Less "peaky" torque production. I also would prefer the TrickFlow single plane intake over the air gap.....especially with the rpm band you expect.

Regarding the pistons: i run hypereutectic KB356 with good results, but strictly no power adder - and with the plans of using nitrous i´d absolutely suggest going forged.

Regarding the HR cam with SR lifters we have to talk separately....i´ll go this route for next season.

Michael
 
360duster said:
in this case a wider LSA is possibly the better solution. Less "peaky" torque production. I also would prefer the TrickFlow single plane intake over the air gap.....especially with the rpm band you expect.

Regarding the pistons: i run hypereutectic KB356 with good results, but strictly no power adder - and with the plans of using nitrous i´d absolutely suggest going forged.

Regarding the HR cam with SR lifters we have to talk separately....i´ll go this route for next season.

Michael
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In my experience the wider the lsa the higher the peak power. Normally I like using 106-108 cams but at this point everything is on the table. Need to start shopping soon, cash is burning my pocket here ;-)

The problem with trick flow single plane is that they plan to make new batch in Jan 2024...
This will probably make me use victor or work on this dual plane and give it a chance before I ditch it for single plane in this as backup scenario.
 
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If you plan on spraying it do run a single plane intake. I have sprayed using a 2 plane deal and it was okay until we got over 175hp jets.

Currently my favorite pistons are Mahle. You should consider swapping the top ring to GNS series SS if you are regularly utilizing a power adder.

For the camshaft I would call Bullet, Mike Jones or Oregon Cam Grinders. I have a loose understanding of valve timing dynamics and leave that stuff to the experts. LSA isnt everything. I have a 499" motor with an intended 9000rpm redline and the LSA is 114. My other 511 (750hp@7100rpm) has a 112LSA.
 
Jeremiah said:
If you plan on spraying it do run a single plane intake. I have sprayed using a 2 plane deal and it was okay until we got over 175hp jets.

Currently my favorite pistons are Mahle. You should consider swapping the top ring to GNS series SS if you are regularly utilizing a power adder.

For the camshaft I would call Bullet, Mike Jones or Oregon Cam Grinders. I have a loose understanding of valve timing dynamics and leave that stuff to the experts. LSA isnt everything. I have a 499" motor with an intended 9000rpm redline and the LSA is 114. My other 511 (750hp@7100rpm) has a 112LSA.
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When it comes to cams, I really like what Jim Dowell @ Racer Brown does, I know Bullet and OCG also.
With nitrous I planned to use port injected system in case of dual plane intake. Going to single plane will make things easier with plate system, especially that its going to be 200 shot tops just for fun ocasionally.

In my 470ci I have RacerBrown solid roller with 106 lsa and I am extremly happy with how the car runs. Its indy tunnel ram and indy headed engine, with very nice port work, almost 12:1. Unfortunately Larry Smith at Flow2tech cylinder heads passed away recently. His port work was good for just over 400cfm @ .800 lift with Indy SR and -1 heads. I usually try to stay below 8000 with this engine. I avoid wide lsa to bing peak rpms down on purpose. My 470 with previous setup (single dominator, less cam) made 740hp, tunnel ram with dual quads and new cam transformed this combo. Feels like MUCH more power now, but this can be a function of torque being lower. I really want to build 500ci bottom end for this with 12.5:1 static compresion but this is for another topic. We need to talk about 500ci bottom end as I am puzzled about rod(aluminium) size I need to use in this. A bit worried about side loading. I will send you PM.
 
Miszny said:
Probably 500-550 area. If there is more on the table I will not complain ;-)
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My car was built to be a street/strip car and is a stick. The 360 stroker makes 550hp/5800 and 550tq/4400, it pulls to 6500 with ease and is built to run a 150 shot of nitrous. It has ootb trickflow heads, 11.1 compression, ootb rpm air gap with an 850 blp carb, a racer brown sft with 256/256 @ .050 on a 107 ls, .582 lift with 1.5 mancini rockers.

To me the easy button is to run some icon 9978 pistons Icon FHR Pistons IC9978-030 Fits SB Chrysler 408 Dish 13cc Bore 4.030. They feature a small 13 cc dish, 4032 forging and are reasonably priced. The downside is they sit .015 lower in the hole than the more expensive ic745 but to adjust compression/quench just get a cometic 4.080 head gasket in anything from .027-.032 (for the same price) to get to 11-11.2 or so compression. Use your heads and rpm intake, a cam from racer brown and you would have a virtual clone of my engine if that is what you want.
 
^^^^ spot on post 19
I like single planes myself on a street car you really wont know either way with a motor like that
 
lead69 said:
My car was built to be a street/strip car and is a stick. The 360 stroker makes 550hp/5800 and 550tq/4400, it pulls to 6500 with ease and is built to run a 150 shot of nitrous. It has ootb trickflow heads, 11.1 compression, ootb rpm air gap with an 850 blp carb, a racer brown sft with 256/256 @ .050 on a 107 ls, .582 lift with 1.5 mancini rockers.

To me the easy button is to run some icon 9978 pistons Icon FHR Pistons IC9978-030 Fits SB Chrysler 408 Dish 13cc Bore 4.030. They feature a small 13 cc dish, 4032 forging and are reasonably priced. The downside is they sit .015 lower in the hole than the more expensive ic745 but to adjust compression/quench just get a cometic 4.080 head gasket in anything from .027-.032 (for the same price) to get to 11-11.2 or so compression. Use your heads and rpm intake, a cam from racer brown and you would have a virtual clone of my engine if that is what you want.
Click to expand...
Yes this sound very good and sort of validates my power guess for this engine. So you have a single pattern cam from Jim, not long ago I used his 232/232 108 cam and was happy with results. I will probably get dual pattern cam this time with a bit less intake duration, tad wider lsa and .600+ lift with 1.6 ratio mancini rockers.

Thank you for pistons tips, I will look into it. I had zero problems with running premium pump gas at 11.3:1 static with that small 232/232 cam edelbrock rpm head 422ci 340. Ended up givng it 34 degrees duration with two light blue springs in the distributor.
 
Just small update, I managed to get my hands on Trick Flow single plane intake for this build.
The only stuff to decide about is what cam and which pistons to use.

For carb I was thinking to use something around 850 cfm with annular boosters. The VRS idea is done, I got one in my hands and I dont want it for this build, it seems small compared to holley XP 750, if 850 was available, I'd give it a shot but Edelbrock cant give any date of 850cfm version release date.
 
Another update, I managed to score this FST billet extreme 850 carb, so next piece of the puzzle is there. Now to wait for parts to arrive here....

FST-41850B-1_ANGLE_540x.jpg
 
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I did not mention earlier on that 360 block is a magnum block and i am not experienced with these things at all. I got Harland Sharp 1.6 ratio rockers dedicated for magnums with pushrod oiling.
Also intake and carb finally got here with timing set and other smaller parts.
Someone locally offered me Hughes magnum hyd roller cam with their performance lifters option which is smaller than I initially planned, but not terrible.
Spec is 238/[email protected]” 109lsa, 104 intake centerline. This will be .578’/.587” lift with my rockers.
Thinking of I should pull the trigger on this.
 
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