So Frustrated!

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younggun2.0 said:
if your going to pay that kind of money for a complete rebuild on a short block then i would pick up a 360 core and start with that. I know alot of guys dont want to hear that but dollar for dollar and part for part you will get alot more power out of the 360. they both take nearly the exact same parts and you will be miles ahead in the performance for cubic $ aspect.
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Ditto.
 
Hi. In post # 16 you mention that magnum 360 are long blocks and will you have to modify your driveshaft. The term "long block " refers to how complete the engine is. A long block includes the block, heads and sometimes the intake manifold. A "short block" is the block,crank,rods and pistons so everything below the heads. The blocks are all the same length so no modification is necessary to you driveshaft. Hope this helps you out and good luck. Bobby
 
QWKSLVR said:
Hi. In post # 16 you mention that magnum 360 are long blocks and will you have to modify your driveshaft. The term "long block " refers to how complete the engine is. A long block includes the block, heads and sometimes the intake manifold. A "short block" is the block,crank,rods and pistons so everything below the heads. The blocks are all the same length so no modification is necessary to you driveshaft. Hope this helps you out and good luck. Bobby
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Well dont I feel like a dumb donkey! ok dumb ***! I never knew that but feel stupid for saying it out loud now!
 
Don't feel stupid, until I was told the difference I did't know either. No such thing as stupid questions just stupid answers. Bobby
 
straightlinespeed said:
What are your opinions on remans from a company like that link above. If I do a reman I see there are also 5.9's some are LA, some are magnum. The magnums seem to be long blocks. With that being said will that change my drive shaft length? Or is the engine moved forward to make up that difference. Really how much longer are they?

Looks like my engine option is open now, Im not stuck with the 318 only. So what would you guys do? Money is still a issue so dont go hog wild. The GF is already looking at me like I've spent enough on this car! Would you just pick something up off of craigslist and throw it in or still have it rebuilt and gone thru? Do a reman from a company? What size engine? Please I do need help with this because I get to many thoughts in my head and then get indecisive! LOL
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The terminology of a "long" or "short" block is widely misunderstood in layman's term. I think it's stupid, because it has absolutely nothing to do with the dimensions of the engine, while BB and RB do.

The idea of a "short" block, is an engine, short two cylinder heads and intake. This means that the term "long" block is the opposite given, because of the "short". It's an engine with both cylinder heads and intake. Why not use "complete" or "incomplete"? I have no idea.

The reason that they are selling Magnum engines complete, with cylinder heads and intake are because the Magnum engines utilize special cylinder heads that have oiling given to them through the pushrods and are pedistal mount rocker arms. They also have a unique intake manifold bolt pattern, so you need to run them together. You can use Magnum heads on an LA engine. You just need to order the right pushrods for your oiling and buy a magnum or dual pattern intake.

straightlinespeed said:
Something else I thought about. Can I still bolt my TTI headers from my LA heads onto a Magnum head? I dont want to have to buy new headers also.
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Yes. In fact, a lot of people use Magnum exhaust manifolds on LA engines, due to their availability over a factory 340 exhaust manifold, for an increase in exhaust flow.

Now, after answering your questions, this is what I would do, if I were you;

Call a few machine shops and ask if they stock engines. Most of them do. If they do, ask them if they have a complete 360 "short" block assembly that they will sell you. Aside from numbers, a 360 can be designated by it's extra eccentric balancer at the front of the crank, behind the main pulley. A 318, 340 and 360 have the same basic external dimensions, with the exception of the oil pain front and rear seal area on a 360, the front crank balancer on a 360 and the additional weights they use on a 360 torque converter for the transmission. This is because the 360 is externally balanced, due to it's stroke. You can continue using your existing, self balanced torque converter if you use a 360 balanced flexplate. B&M makes a reasonable one that can be bought at Summitracing.com that isn't too costly.

Cylinder heads are typically referred to by the last three digits of the casting number on them. During the late 1980s, Chrysler did some good things to the LA engines, just before the magnum engine took it's place.

There is a cylinder head that is a closed chamber, higher compression head that works on pump gas and has hardened exhaust valve seats in it, that without any serious neglect, can usually take lapping compound to the valves and seats (youtube valve lapping for a demo, you can do it in your garage with a cheap wood plunger tool and cheap compound) and a cheap set of valve stem seals put on the factory stuff.

The head you want to find is a "...308" casting number. Again, it's an '80's vintage head that came on pre-magnum engines.

You can do the same thing with a 318 engine and utilize the '80's vintage "...302" casting number, closed chamber head.

These heads will bolt up to an LA engine, utilizing the same rocker shafts, oiling, pushrods, valve covers, etc.

The reason I suggest finding a short block is so you can inspect it. It would be best if it was in pieces, so you could mic the cylinders at the ends of the piston throw and do the same with the crank journals, before buying it, but at least measuring how much wear the bore has at the piston top dead center of it's throw, versus where it doesn't go to the top of the block will give you an idea, in thousandths of an inch, as to how much wear it has.

If you get the factory bore numbers and crank journal numbers for a 318 and a 360, that can give you an idea of what to look for with a good dial.

You can even re-ring a stock engine with it's stock pistons if the cylinders show less than .007" in difference between the top and bottom of the cylinder diameter when mic'd.

If you are just looking for a good driver, consider looking at some short blocks that measure up right for a re-ring job and leave it be.

If you were to spend your money on a good, 1980's vintage 360 with 308 heads, you could get some good performance out of it, even with that 340 spec cam and lifters put in it. Any LA 360 will accept 308 casting heads and any LA 318 will accept 302 casting heads.

If you use the late model heads, it will keep you from having to spend a lot of money, reworking the cylinder heads to accept unleadded fuel, especially for a driver and the quench as well as the flow is fantastic on them.
 
straightlinespeed said:
The 318 actually came in my 71 scamp I bought late last summer. They guy said the heads where ported and reworked. Didnt really say anything about the bottom end but I got the feeling he had it rebuilt by the way he talked. It had a 340 cam in it and when I pulled the heads sure enough they have been ported. Heads where very clean. No oil sludge etc. So I know the engine was apart. Had it all painted up pretty and all! When I test drove the car it didnt fire right off and actually took a little bit of time to fire. I figure they just slapped the carb on and never really tuned the engine. Engine seemed strong on the test drive. Hell the guy even had me lay rubber thru the intersection.

I understand your frustration but if the guy never said he rebuilt it and you never asked, by assuming these things you set yourself up for a fall. Please don't take that as criticism as it's not meant that way. Just take it from one that experienced the same sort of thing when I was young and learned the hard way to never go by feelings or assume anything. If you don't know the person well enough to trust him and he doesn't have reciepts your best assumption is it could need rebuilt, no matter what he says
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I've been tossing around just going to the junk yard and picking up a 318 or 360 magnum and throwing that in the car for now but Im not all up on the magnum swaps.

Magnums bolt right in place of an LA. The only difference is the engine mount on one side (I always forget what side) is different on a 318 to a 360 and a 360 magnum is externally balanced so you'll have to change the torque converter or buy a B&M or TCI weighted flexplate to properly balance it. Of course you'll also have to buy a intake that accepts a carb. and swap the magnum dist. for a LA dist, such as your 318 dist.
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Never looked at a crate engine, but I think those cost a ton more! I would love to hear more opinions about what to do for a engine
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A crate engine generally costs less than one done at a local machine shop because companies that do crate engines generally do them in bulk where-as a local machine shop does them one at a time. The only issue with crate engines are sometimes those places that do them in bulk don't do a very good job. Even though it costs more I'd have a trusted local shop do one for me if I couldn't do it myself.

straightlinespeed said:
What are your opinions on remans from a company like that link above.

If you don't know anything about them avoid them
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Looks like my engine option is open now, Im not stuck with the 318 only. So what would you guys do? Money is still a issue so dont go hog wild. The GF is already looking at me like I've spent enough on this car! Would you just pick something up off of craigslist and throw it in or still have it rebuilt and gone thru? Do a reman from a company? What size engine? Please I do need help with this because I get to many thoughts in my head and then get indecisive! LOL
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I'd look at the for sale ads here. I regulary see a fellow up in the N.E. (can't think of his screen name but I remember his first name is Ken) sell rebuilt engines for good prices and I'm sure he's reliable. Here's a link to a fellow in NY with a 360 with only 5000 miles on the rebuild and he only wants $1400 for it

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=224064

EDIT: just located Ken's ad for a fresh 360 long block. It's got a pretty big cam but maybe you could talk to him about camming it down. Here's the link to his ad

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=199310

straightlinespeed said:
Something else I thought about. Can I still bolt my TTI headers from my LA heads onto a Magnum head? I dont want to have to buy new headers also.
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Headers are the same. I don't know where that crap got started about LA's and magnums being different but their not.

QWKSLVR said:
Don't feel stupid, until I was told the difference I did't know either. No such thing as stupid questions just stupid answers. Bobby
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That's right. :thumbrig:
 
But there are long and short (shaft) auto transmissions! Junkyard 318/360 probably the same price, but a 360 will need the matching convertor too. Not many 360's came with a 904 so make sure the trans are the same if going with a 360 + convertor.
 
Be patient. I ran across a complete 318 at the wrecker for $300 with an eddy performer intake (minus carb & alternator haha... a-holes...) in a salvaged 78 4x4. Heard it run in the truck, deposited $125, picked it up the next morning. Now I have the time to think harder about the 5 different and ever-changing 360-based torque-monster's ACTUALLY worth investing in. Good luck.
 
You could stroke that 318 to roughly 400" and they make really good power with the right combo. They are fun and get you that torque 318's lack.
 
gtmopar said:
You could stroke that 318 to roughly 400" and they make really good power with the right combo. They are fun and get you that torque 318's lack.
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yeah they run like a 408.....set up right:dontknow:
 
Takes 250+ cfm,to feed any 4.00 inch stroke small block. Been there,done that.A nice one,7 ,000 minimum. Find a decent 318/340/360 runner. Stuff a cam,air gap/M1 intake / Holley,T.Q./headers,run 12's all day long.If you want 11's,spend the coin.If you cruise,drop the hammer once in a while,run a stock bottom end.....
 
So much great info! Thank you to everyone for your help! I feel much better now and I don't have to go kick my dog! PS I don't really kick my dog lol
 
pishta said:
But there are long and short (shaft) auto transmissions! Junkyard 318/360 probably the same price, but a 360 will need the matching convertor too. Not many 360's came with a 904 so make sure the trans are the same if going with a 360 + convertor.
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do you happen to know what trans is in your car now?
 
ok so you can bolt a 360 right to it. if the salvage yard has one you will want to get it with the flex plate and torque converter if possible.

hopefully the kickdown linkage is still attached also. i'm not sure if the 318 kickdowns will be the same but maybe someone else can chime in.

if you find a 318 then you can just reuse all your current stuff.
 
Try cmengines.com in NC. They will give you a complete rebuild for 1195 plus 150 for pick up and delivery.
 
Just my .02 I grabbed a 90 360 short block fresh rebuild for 800 I like it a lot not a magnum but still roller cam all I had to do was bolt up my old top end parts that were still good and drop it in
 
lots of miles on that. i'd try to find one around 50k miles if possible, from a wrecked vehicle. at 100k plus it's probably pretty worn out.
 
It's just so frustrating...

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Sorry, I couldn't help myself, I just saw the title of the thread and had to post....I never even read what your issue was...Hope your Friday is going better!
 
Shop around, here on FABO, also on Craigslist, you can find a good running engine, often with nice aftermarket mods for less or the same money. There are a lot of unfinished projects out there being parted out, take advantage of that.
Be sure and pick up whats left of your engine from the machine shop, just to make sure everybody is on the up and up with you.
 
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