Some cam and spring, and gasket set help needed..

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Dragonbat13

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I had asked awhile back about a cam grind to have my factory roller cam reground for my super budget rebuild.

Here are the parameters of the car that I can tell about. It will be a street car. No passes down the track with this engine. I am wanting to get the rest of the car in nice shape, but want to work with what I have. This is gonna be a long post.

OK, the block is a late 80 roller cam 318.

My head situtation is as follows. I have two heads that came with the engine that had a crummy port match to 360 size gaskets. I also have a stock head with the original port sizes. Last, I have some 1.88 intake/1.60 exhaust valves from some stocker heads that will work just fine. They are tulip type, and will loose a little compression. All the heads mentioned above have had no machine work done on them other than the port matching on the two that came with the engine. I had scored the third head years ago. All of the heads are the 302 closed chamber 318 casting. Question on this one is, should I find another 302 casting head with 318 ports, and install the 1.88/1.60 valves in them, Or use the opened up heads? I will do some mild bowl grinding and possible chamber unshrouding if I use the bigger valves. Also, I can buy the valve guide cutting setup for my cheap drill press and lower them a bit to allow a little more valve lift. I plan on using standard valve retainers, not the rotator type. Also, I would like to use as much of a "drop in" spring I can use with the stocker, shaft mount rockers. I will use new factory roller lifters from Rock Auto. Also, I am gonna use correct length pushrods, even if I have to get them custom made to keep the lifter preload in check.

I want to use a vacumme secondary carb and a dual plane intake.

Ignition will consist of a mopar distributor that I will recurve myself using my past experience with other builds. I kinda want to use the HEI adapter I have seen online and go with that ignition. Although I havent ruled out the factory mopar electronic ignition yet.

My transmission is gonna consist of a non lockup 904, with 999 gears in it. For the lower first gear to get it out of the hole slightly better. Torque converter, Im thinking of using a 2500-2800 stall convertor. But honestly, I am gonna get the engine built up and everything I can possibly do to give the techs to build me a custom convertor to build up what would be best.

Rear gear is gonna be a dogleg 3.23 geared 8.25. Not dumping any money into that until I can get an 8.75 housing later. 28 inch tall tires.

Car is gonna have power steering, power disc brakes with drums in the rear, and air conditioning.

The motor is gonna use the stock pistons, rods and crank. Maybe a windage tray. Probably a new oil pump. Nothing fancy on the bottom end.

So my questions:

Should I find another standard intake port 302 head or just use what I already have?

Should I go with the bigger valves and the mild porting? I kinda like doing porting, and dont mind paying for a valve job to utilize the bigger valves. As long as new seats are not required. Im under the impression that the valves will work with what is already in the head. I heard these mods make for a real snappy 318 with these heads.

I need to get a complete gasket set for the build. I have seen several gaskets sets, some by off the wall brands, I think one by felpro. Anything wrong with going cheap on the gaskets? Also, what about using thinner head gaskets to increase compression a bit? 93 octane is everywhere around here. Even ethanol free fuel.

And the most important one.

CAMSHAFT AND SPRINGS.
I plan on having my factor cam ground by oregon camshaft grinders. But I am somewhat limited by the springs. What would be the best grind to use. Someone had recommended the 1331 grind. But I was told that the stocker valvetrain wouldnt hold up. I dont mind going to a stronger spring, but I dont want to start spending any money on better rockers if the ones I have are just fine.

I would like to get around the 300 horsepower mark with this engine. I wouldnt think this is an unreasonable goal. Really just want a fun to drive motor until I can get the rest of the car ready for something along the lines of a stroked 360. But I cant build a stroker motor right now. I gotta spend money on things like lighting, few rust places, front suspension rebuild, blah, blah.

So does anybody have any suggestions on any of this? Questions? Any ideas on anything to make this a nice cruiser motor with a little extra pep?

Thanks for any help. I take the info off of this forum VERY seriously. Very informed folks on here. Once again, thanks for any help.
 
What kind of build is this? Stock or performance? Talk to Oregon and see what they recommend for a spring. The stock rockers will not take much spring pressure before pushrods start punching through the rockers. It even happens on stone stock engines, because the stock rockers are already a weak link. Any type of spring upgrade and you can be in trouble. I told you this once in another thread. Are you trying to keep asking the same question until you get the answer you want? The answer is simple. You will need an upgraded rocker arm for pretty much anything over a stock spring and especially for a roller camshaft with any type of performance specs. Not to mention getting lifter preload dead on the money like it needs to be in a performance application. You cannot "half ***" convert a non adjustable valve train to a performance valve train. The reason it worked for Chrysler is because they kept lifts very low. If you plan on keeping lift in the stock range, you may as well run the stock roller camshaft. It will save you lots of money. I don't know any other language beside English, so I hope you understand.
 
Its gonna be mild performance engine. I have seen many engines with upgraded springs and stock rockers. Are these rockers weaker than the older ones, such as the one on the early high compression 340? I would even go without the spring upgrade if it isnt necessary. I would go with a mild enough regrind to allow use of replacement stock spec springs if I have to. Or even stick with the stock cam If I have to.

Im not trying to argue or insult anybody. I suppose that all of these engines I see in mags and such are a timebomb waiting to happen with upgraded springs (not being sarcastic, most mag buildups suck when you get down to it). I started a new thread because I was misleading on the first one with a few things and wanted to get as much info across as I could.

The only reason I wanted to do the regrind was because it is such a good value. In the first thread along time ago, the 1331 grind was what you recommended. Although I had stated using 3.55 gears. Thats not gonna happen and I am gonna stick with the 3.23 gears. I was under the impression that the 1331 grind would be too much cam for the stock springs to control. I was also thinking that a spring upgrade would have been needed. Maybe thats not the case.

Do I even need to replace the springs at all with the above cam? If so, is there any regrind at all that would work with the stock spec springs? I would go with new, stock spec springs to avoid using wore out, old springs.

Also, I doubt this engine will even see 10,000 miles total. And no dragstrip time. If I really like the engine so much that I want to keep it, Ill pull the heads and rework them correctly.

Sorry for upsetting you, rusty. I just had the other thread so wacked out that I wanted to get it right to keep from misleading everybody.

EDIT: Maybe I should have drank the entire cup of coffee first! I see where you say any performance upgrade for a stock rocker is asking for it. I suppose ill stick with the stock cam. Although I could go with an upgraded rocker arm if it would offset the costs of custom length pushrods. Is there any option to go with to keep it cheap with an adjustable aftermarket rocker in place of the custom pushrods? Something like some used factory adjustable ones? Im starting to think about forgetting about the regrind.
 
meh was gonna type a long reply it got deleted when i switched pages. i'm not typin all that again but i'll summarize.

find a 360 core instead to build upon. better hp per dollar. 318 is more of a workhorse / long runner / dependable engine. building it for performance all kinds of $$$ to be at the hp of a stock 360 is a waste if you get what i'm saying.

find a 360 core/2.02 heads somewhere and use that to build

also spending 100's of dollars for "roller" cam modifications when you might gain 10 or 20 hp over a solid lifter cam (or even LOSE hp depending on rpm range of your cam) is a waste.

head flow is > all. a set of econo W2's with a solid lifter purple shaft cam will outflow and outperform the 302 heads with omg roller cam any day of the week. they dont work with stock exhaust manifolds tho
 
Run what you want to. I am simply tellin you the facts. It's not my money or motor. Good luck.
 
A decent set of rockers doesn't cost much. What are you lookin at? Harland Sharp?
 
I hadnt looked at those lately. Been out of the game for a LONG time. Only thing I looked at today was the HD rockers from mancini. Apparently they are Six Pack rockers, with "more beef around the pushrod area". Those are non adjustable. They were 180 dollars. But I dont know of any aftermarket rockers that are durable/ and budget orientated. But I havent looked in a while either. I would love the adjustable rockers.

And of course, the rockers could be moved over to the stroker engine I build later on.

Any suggestions? I always thought those crane iron/adjustable rockers were cool. But on the other hand the aluminum ones would free up some weight on the valve train.

Most of my performance experience is based on things like carb tuning, and timing curves. Some larger valves and home porting.

OK, Ill come out and say it. Reluctantly. I want a little more "sound" than a factory cam. I know, I know.

If I could find a set of rockers that would help me out for under 250.00 I could swing that.
 
Dragonbat13 said:
I hadnt looked at those lately. Been out of the game for a LONG time. Only thing I looked at today was the HD rockers from mancini. Apparently they are Six Pack rockers, with "more beef around the pushrod area". Those are non adjustable. They were 180 dollars. But I dont know of any aftermarket rockers that are durable/ and budget orientated. But I havent looked in a while either. I would love the adjustable rockers.

And of course, the rockers could be moved over to the stroker engine I build later on.

Any suggestions? I always thought those crane iron/adjustable rockers were cool. But on the other hand the aluminum ones would free up some weight on the valve train.

Most of my performance experience is based on things like carb tuning, and timing curves. Some larger valves and home porting.

OK, Ill come out and say it. Reluctantly. I want a little more "sound" than a factory cam. I know, I know.

If I could find a set of rockers that would help me out for under 250.00 I could swing that.
Click to expand...

easy schmeasy. all you need to do is find a 60's plymouth/dodge in a slavage yard with a 273.

grab the rockers/shafts/holdowns/pushrods everything. under the valve covers.
 
Yup. Probably the best bang for the buck right there. ^^^^^^^
 
If you want to build a fun budget motor till you go stroker here's my opinion.
Limitations considered Street Car, 3.23 gear, power brakes, AC, I'll assume you have flat top pistons no valve reliefs .050 below deck.

Carb Holley 1850 600 Vac Sec, your choice of dual plane intake.
Oregon HR grind 1161 210/215@50 .498 lift (minus .015 geometry loss = .480 lift
Mopar OEM dizzy recurved with HEI module.
Buy a set of 273 rockers and shafts from FABO member.
Summit brand 1 5/8 headers and a good dual exhaust with H pipe.
A good quality 2500 stall converter.

Clean up the gasket match on the original engine heads. Cut the valve guides down with a slow RPM hand drill, install vinton valve seals. Comp, Summit sell a cutter and arbor .530 x 3/8 stem. Run Comp Cam 901-16 spring install height 1.65 with your stock retainers.
Clean up the bowls and knock the rough areas out of the runners.

Check heads for flatness, mock up the engine and check piston to valve clearance. Use two old lifters with washers installed to make solid roller lifters with proper preload and an adjustable pushrod. Once you know pushrod length and V to P clearance you can select the thinnest head gasket you can safely use.

Lots of people over cam and carb and end up with a turd. Don't pick a cam for sound, always select for intended use and power.

You can make any V8 sound like it has a big cam by retarding timing before you go to the cruise in; just make sure you bump it back up before you leave so you can do your burnout leaving the parking lot.
 
OK. I scored some 273 rockers. So thats that.

What about the 360 valves? I already have them, and I figured a valve regrind into the budget. Can I install them with the factory seats?
 
Yes. The 360 valves can be installed in the 302 heads. The machine shop will have to cut the valve seats oversized to do it.
 
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