Something strange with the front end

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ratty dart 340

ratty dart 340

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I’ve got a 73 dart sport with a 360. Was drag raced years ago then sat in a field. Previous owner never said anything about the car being in a front end collision. However, it’s starting to seem like it was in some sort of “collision” on the front drivers side.

I did a front suspension rebuild kit (1973 1974 1975 1976 Dodge Dart Red Polyurethane New Front End Suspension Master Rebuild Kit)

I also messed with the torsion bars and made them even, in addition to adjusting the tie rods.

So, my problem, the passenger side front tire is vertically parallel with the fender. However, the drivers side wheel is pushed in a couple of inches front the fender..


image.jpg


image.jpg


In addition to the wheels being off center in the wheel well, the driver side shock tower is not centered with the circle in the inner fender.
image.jpg


image.jpg


The metal support in front of the radiator is also bent inwards:
image.jpg



With all these discrepancies, is it far fetched to believe the frame may be bent or maybe the upper control arm is bent?

on the upper control arm, the bolts that attach it to the frame, are oval in shape. Meaning you can adjust how far the wheel juts out from the inner fender.
I made these nuts identical on the two sides and the wheels still didn’t match.


When searching the front suspension on the drivers side, I found this metal support piece seperated from the fender.
image.jpg


Could this bracket, in conjunction with the tie links and the the torsion bars, combine to yield my problem? Or is there possibly a bent frame?

The car is having a major engine overhaul currently so I can’t drive it to feel if anything is out of place, so I’m just looking for some rough ideas and suggestions.

Thanks.
 
Double check the wheels are the same width, backspacing and offset before you go further. The shock not being centered could simply be how it was put together at the factory. They weren't REAL precise with these old girls. It could also be bent from a collision, but exclude everything else "FIRST". The hood latch support is certainly bent, though.
 
Would also check the wheel base by having the wheels straight and measuring wheels centers on both sides. Check the frame rails for any signs of worping and welding patches or any bent spots. Or “banana” wher the rails are curved. It’s in rather obvious when the car in on a rack in the air to see these things. Also if the car is put up on jack stands, mark the heights so the front set and back set are the same when placed under the car, if there’s any major “bending” the car won’t sit even on all the stands.
 
While on the stands, drop a few plumb bobs from various points on the undersides of the frame rails (front and back) and measure diagonals. There will probably be a little variance, but that should give you a bit of a idea.
 
Look for welds where a spot weld should be.

For the shock tower, IF it was supposed to be attached to the inner frame and it is not any more could explain the shock not being centered.


Last thing. With no weight on the front end the suspension is not in it's propper position so the geometry is / could be way off.

Even to the point of one side looking good and the other being grossly off.


Here are the shock towers on my 67 dart.
PXL_20221225_154706975.jpg


PXL_20221225_154650664.jpg
 
Last edited:
RustyRatRod said:
They weren't REAL precise with these old girls.
Click to expand...
All good ideas above.
The joke from the engineers back then was "We are very precise with our measurements,+ or - 2 inches"
That statement was made by the father of the 426 Hemi Tom Hoover at a show many years ago.Thou exaggerated but not untrue.
All jokes aside CFD244 has a good idea. Do a search and maybe you can come up with frame specs for you make and model.
Frame shops had books with spots to take measurements from both front and rear sub frames on unit body Mopars.
Maybe look at the My Mopar site.
 
Dana67Dart said:
Look for welds where a spot weld should be.

For the shock tower, IF it was supposed to be attached to the inner frame and it is not any more could explain the shock not being centered.


Last thing. With no weight on the front end the suspension is not in it's propper position so the geometry is / could be way off.

Even to the point of one side looking good and the other being grossly off.


Here are the shock towers on my 67 dart.
View attachment 1716026172

View attachment 1716026173
Click to expand...
Ok interesting point. I have had the the car driving and fully weighted down, but that tire still sits more in the well than the passanger. Another thing to note, the front driver side wheel would sorta penguin out and move out position from just a 2 minute drive.
 
Darter6 said:
All good ideas above.
The joke from the engineers back then was "We are very precise with at have a lip that turns our measurements,+ or - 2 inches"
That statement was made by the father of the 426 Hemi Tom Hoover at a show many years ago.Thou exaggerated but not untrue.
All jokes aside CFD244 has a good idea. Do a search and maybe you can come up with frame specs for you make and model.
Frame shops had books with spots to take measurements from both front and rear sub frames on unit body Mopars.
Maybe look at the My Mopar site.
Click to expand...
He can take X measurements from the dedicated body holes and find out real quick. btw, the dedicated body measurement holes are those in the frame rails that turns UP INTO the hole. Those are the ones to measure from. You need to measure from the center of the holes as best you can.
 
"Start with" do you have a service manual?

Go to MyMopar and download the two volumes free. THOSE GOT THERE because of some of us on here

The manual (someplace) has a drawing detailing the measurements of various points on the subframes.
 
I had a 74 Dart Sport 360 years ago that had similar problems. The k frame was cracked in the lower control arm bushing mount and the frame rail was cracked and bent on the right side. I replaced the k member, which helped quite a bit, but not completely. I eventually sold the car to my body and paint guy at the time. He found the frame issue and repaired it.
I noticed in the second picture that the fender appeared to be out of alignment with the door, but that wouldn't explain the "penguin" effect. Did you remove the lower control arms when rebuilding the front end? Is there play in the lower strut arms?
 
I agree with all the frame measuring suggestions above. I'm curious if it dog tracks as seen from behind when following it? A good frame shop should be able to get it right on.
 
missing linc said:
I had a 74 Dart Sport 360 years ago that had similar problems. The k frame was cracked in the lower control arm bushing mount and the frame rail was cracked and bent on the right side. I replaced the k member, which helped quite a bit, but not completely. I eventually sold the car to my body and paint guy at the time. He found the frame issue and repaired it.
I noticed in the second picture that the fender appeared to be out of alignment with the door, but that wouldn't explain the "penguin" effect. Did you remove the lower control arms when rebuilding the front end? Is there play in the lower strut arms?
Click to expand...
I did not remove the lower control arm so that could be a factor in all this. I will dive into that maybe today or tomorrow. Hoping the k frame is not cracked
 
Find someone in your area with a fixture to set the car on. This will set square and twist, We went to install quarters on this Demon and the left rear frame rail was off 3/4 inch . We found this setting it on this fixture

100_0155.JPG


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100_0103.JPG
 
Actually if you think the body "frame" is a problem, you need to do that FIRST
 
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