Does anyone make this type of product for the late 73-76 Abody spindle? Never saw this before but what a great product.
Spindle bearing spacer
- Thread starter 66Valiant528
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It frees up the rotor. It's always either a little too loose or tight. Have you seen one of these installed? Yes my cars have been surviving without it forever but I like the way this works. Just wondering if there is one for my spindles out there.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
A proper rotor with no damage and properly adjusted bearings needs no such thing. The spindle nut, the companion cap and pin and washer, you adjust the bearings for proper pre-load. They are ALWAYS under a slight tension end-to-end, or maybe I should say compression. This should not change, and never has been known to be a problem. IF IT IS (a problem) there is likely something wrong--with a bearing, with the machining in the rotor, whatever
Looks like a good idea is all I'm saying and was wondering if one is made for a Mopar spindle. Maybe the circle track guys use them.
JDMopar
Well-Known Member
It's not the same function, but the one below is the only Mopar spacer I know of. It allows you to use 73 and up one piece rotors on 70-72 B&E disc brake spindles.
'70 - '72 Mopar B/E-Body Disc Brake Spindle Sleaves (doctordiff.com)
'70 - '72 Mopar B/E-Body Disc Brake Spindle Sleaves (doctordiff.com)
Can someone explain the overall purpose and assembled location of the piece in the first thread?
Just caught my eye. There is a video out there explaining there function as well. Appears to be a circle track thing.
The rotor doesn't need "freeing up". In fact, a tapered roller bearing must have some preload. It's right in the factory service manual. I'm having a hard time understanding this, too.
Well there doesn't seem to be one for my 73 up Abody spindles so I guess it's a moot point. As I said in OP it seems like a great product but I was just looking for some feedback. Thanks all for your replies. My cars shall continue to function fine without it.
I have them on my stock car. Allstar also makes them. I have only seen them available for the G body metric and the pinto as far as stock style spindles. I don't know how the dimensions of either the metric or pinto compare to the a body spindles to know if they would fit or could be modified to fit. For what it's worth the hubs spin noticeably more free than without braring spacers when adjusted properly. Recommended to have .001" - .002" preload If I remember correctly. They also offer low drag seals and REM finish bearings. I put a low drag seal on one side and a used stock rubber seal on the other and the difference was surprisingly noticeable when spinning by hand. Does all this add up to a reduction in lap times? I don't know. Probably not. Lol
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Answer me this. I turned 74 yesterday. WHY ARE PEOPLE who are not engineers so anxious to re-engineer something that has worked since before I was born? Timken bearings have been around since 1898
You don't need a diploma in engineering hanging on the wall to improve a product or idea. But it doesn't hurt if you do.
People have been trying to improve the area between axle and wheel since the wheel was invented. As a side note, I don't believe the person who invented the wheel had an engineering diploma.[Citation needed]
At some time in history the roller bearing was an improvement over whatever product people were using before roller bearings.
The auto manufacturing industry doesn’t always do things based on what performs the best. There are host of factors that play into how something is done. Cost is just one example.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I call bullshit. This "setup" has been in use for decades and decades. Can you spell "more than a century?" These setups WORK. All you need is a simple adjustment and proper lube and they go 10's of thousands of miles. In some cases 100K.
This design was also used for decades on front and rear axles of 4x4 pickups AND IS STILL IN USE on drive axles and steering and tag axles of heavy over the road trucks.
This design was also used for decades on front and rear axles of 4x4 pickups AND IS STILL IN USE on drive axles and steering and tag axles of heavy over the road trucks.
" More than a centery" Dang, I guess not.
Longevity is not the only factor considered when we hang parts on race cars. And it's still roller bearings. They didn't re-invent the wheel here. It's just a spacer between the inner bearing races that seems to have less drag according to my not so super sophisticated spin test. I wish I had better data to support the spacer. I am a skeptic at heart and most of the advertising is testimonials so maybe it is BS.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
https://www.drpperformance.net/hub-components
"increases wheel spin by 1200%"
whaddya saying.....i'm gonna have a lack of traction....!
I don't doubt there is some benefit but i think its being overstated
it assumes that the support area machined into the stub at the back of the inner bearing isn't true to the support of the outer part of the outer bearing, which in our (and most other) case(s) is a big fat machined washer hence usuing a presicion spacer inbetween makes sure this is the case... MMmmm ok washer is backed by a threaded nut is it parralell with the plane of the inner bearing?
do you get your 1200% increase in spinny-ness due to this or the special seals??
instructions here https://www.drpperformance.net/resources
Dave
"increases wheel spin by 1200%"
whaddya saying.....i'm gonna have a lack of traction....!
I don't doubt there is some benefit but i think its being overstated
it assumes that the support area machined into the stub at the back of the inner bearing isn't true to the support of the outer part of the outer bearing, which in our (and most other) case(s) is a big fat machined washer hence usuing a presicion spacer inbetween makes sure this is the case... MMmmm ok washer is backed by a threaded nut is it parralell with the plane of the inner bearing?
do you get your 1200% increase in spinny-ness due to this or the special seals??
instructions here https://www.drpperformance.net/resources
Dave
Another example of where I see this type arrangement with a spacer between two tapered bearings is on the pinion of a rear end. I'm not sure how it relates but they must use that arrangement there for a reason.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
I guess its all about making sure the cones are absolutley parallel to each other. in theory you could use a crush sleeve in the hub in the same style as they do in a rear end, BUT would it achive the same aims? and in a rear end we know its all paralell, as the pinon shaft and beraings usually interface so well you need a puller to get em off crush sleeve or spacer and shim, is really just a preload setter..... and it does the job well enough.
In cornering how does a hub version help? even if preloaded correctly under lateral force a pair of wheel bearings is going to see 1 cup and cone slightly unload while the other takes it, regardless of the spacer. maybe if the stub axle flexes i guess haveing the bearing inners braced againts each other might help in that situation.
somone see's merit in these things but i can't work out why they should supposedly have such a large impact. its friday afternoon i'm stuck in the office on a sunny 23* day my brain may not be working to its fullest capability
Taller spindle or long baljoint i can see the impact on roll centre, seems to have merit, get the effect of lowering the car without lowering the car.... light weight lower arms and aluminium calipers, less for the spring to control a positive impact on handling..all good, chassis connectors, stiffer body. again makes sense but with these i'm missing something .....
What people are missing in this argument is, there's already a spacer between the front bearings. It's called the rotor and spindle.
That is true the hub acts as a spacer but it doesn't space the inner races in the same way. It would be like installing the pinion bearings with out the spacer or crush sleeve and using a nut with a cotter pin to set preload. I haven't ever done that to a rear end but something tells me it won't work. The principle is the same with the wheel bearing spacer. I'm not saying you can't drive thousands of trouble free miles with a conventional set up without a spacer. Obviously you can. It seems like the spacer set up has less drag when you spin it by hand. Maybe it's an illusion. I don't know.
The moment they said it improves anything "1200%" should be a giant red flag. What did they measure to get that number? I don't care what it is, if it was a 1,200% improvement the product would be adopted by the major manufacturers. Think about it. If it reduced drag that much, it would improve fuel economy. Much less effective and more expensive systems have been designed for smaller benefit than that. Is EFI a 1,200% improvement vs a carburetor? No, it is not. And yet...
You're just betting that the machining on the bearing spacer is significantly better than the machining of your hubs and the location of the bearing races. For a 1200% improvement those hubs would have to be really poorly machined.
I mean seriously, they started talking about drag from the wheel bearing seals. First, that has to be a tiny fraction of a percent of rolling resistance. Second, if you loosen up the wheel bearing seals, guess what you're gonna get? Greasy. Might all of this make some tiny improvement in rolling resistance? Maybe. Doubtful, but maybe. But even if that means you can push the car easier, just remember, you're not even 1 hp.
A 10% improvement would be massive. 1200% is bullshit.
You're just betting that the machining on the bearing spacer is significantly better than the machining of your hubs and the location of the bearing races. For a 1200% improvement those hubs would have to be really poorly machined.
I mean seriously, they started talking about drag from the wheel bearing seals. First, that has to be a tiny fraction of a percent of rolling resistance. Second, if you loosen up the wheel bearing seals, guess what you're gonna get? Greasy. Might all of this make some tiny improvement in rolling resistance? Maybe. Doubtful, but maybe. But even if that means you can push the car easier, just remember, you're not even 1 hp.
A 10% improvement would be massive. 1200% is bullshit.
No, but the spindle spaces the inner races the way the FACTORY intended. It's not "all" about less drag. But yall go ahead and run the things. You think these people know more than factory Chrysler engineers? I'll just leave you with your own words from your last sentence. "I don't know" Might wanna think about "THAT".
If it reduces drag by 1200%, the car would be rollin placed by itself. lol
To be fair, Chrysler engineers did a lot of things for a lot of reasons and not all of them amount to the best way to get something done, even 50 years ago.
Auto manufacturers do things for a lot of different reasons, but cost and speed of production play a big part. And those two things generally do not result in what’s “best” from an enthusiasts point of view.
Lol! Yeah that just kills me. I’d have been more likely to think there was something to it if they hadn’t tried to claim a 1200% increase. I mean, I’d have been skeptical if they said 10%. Even a few percentage points of reduction in rolling resistance would be significant.
Of course they said a 1200% increase in “wheel spin” so, I dunno what exactly that is.
That's true, but I think they got the spindles and bearings RIGHT. LOL
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