SSBC A-153 Front Drum to Disc Brake Conversion - Non Power - 71 Demon 340

[Shorty1029]

Has anyone used the SSBC A-153 kit recently? I have experience several issues including...brake hoses are not long enough to fit into bracket on inner frame rail... additional set of castle nuts had to be produced to work... incorrect brackets.

I now have a terrible shake in the front end... tires and front end were aligned... alignment shop is telling the studs are not centered on the hub.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[melcardona]

Has anyone used the SSBC A-153 kit recently? I have experience several issues including...brake hoses are not long enough to fit into bracket on inner frame rail... additional set of castle nuts had to be produced to work... incorrect brackets.

I now have a terrible shake in the front end... tires and front end were aligned... alignment shop is telling the studs are not centered on the hub.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

varify for your self....jack up 1 tire at a time spin it..look for run out ..look for hop........if you see eather..look at edge of wheel vs tire...determan if its wheel or tire...even with china junk..its not common to see hubs made off center....crap berings , studs, or bad finish all common..

 

[Shorty1029]

Verified the studs are off center. Hoping for some help from SSBC, but this has been going on for months now.
Anywhere else I can get small bolt pattern rotors to replace these? Just want to be done with this before Spring gets here.

 

[Bennoel 10]

I don't believe you can just get a pair of factory style (kelsey hayes) rotors and install on the SSBC conversion kit. The kelsey hayes rotors are available from rock auto but they require the kelsey hayes hubs which to my knowledge no one reproduces. Unfortunately I believe you're best off to try and get either a refund or some more rotors from SSBC to try and rectify the issue.

 

[Shorty1029]

I was afraid that. Am I crazy to think this would be causing the shake in the steering? Never had this problem with the drums. Thanks for your help!

 

[72bluNblu]

It’s not crazy to think that could have an effect on the steering shake. It wouldn’t be my first thing to suspect but that doesn’t mean it’s not the problem.

When is this shake occurring? All the time? At certain speeds? Only when braking?

The other thing is, you’ve shown that the studs aren’t centered, but, is the hub itself centered? Is the center register of the wheel tight on the hub? The factory wheels are hub centric, aftermarket wheels are often lug centric. If the wheel is lug centric then the studs not being centered could absolutely cause the wheel shake. If the wheel is hub centric then the studs not being perfectly centered might not cause the shake as long as the hub itself is centered. Which is not to say that the lugs being off center isn’t an issue, just maybe not THE issue.

It certainly shows lousy craftsmanship, so, it might not be the only problem with those rotors and hubs.

Other stuff to check would be that the wheel bearings are properly seated and have the correct end play, and any run out on the hub and rotor.

 

[matthon]

Don't they require offset shims between the hub and rotor?

 

[DartGTDan]

I put the SSBC kit on my '71 Dart GT about 20 years ago. So far I haven't needed any replacement parts, but I'm always looking for part numbers/information about the parts SSBC used (bearings, seals, hoses, etc...). If you @Shorty1029 can assist with part numbers it would be greatly appreciated.

Here is what I've discovered (here on FABO):

 

[str12-340]

Have you connected with SSBC? I have been using their products for 20 years and always found them responsive. Why look for rotors elsewhere when they should make this right?

Confirming the Kelsey Hayes set up uses a different spindle than drum brakes - that's the point of the SSBC set up, adding disk brakes while using the drum spindle and suspension components.

 

[72bluNblu]

Have you connected with SSBC? I have been using their products for 20 years and always found them responsive. Why look for rotors elsewhere when they should make this right?

Confirming the Kelsey Hayes set up uses a different spindle than drum brakes - that's the point of the SSBC set up, adding disk brakes while using the drum spindle and suspension components.

SSBC went bankrupt a few years back and were sold and reopened. So if your experience with their products isn’t after that it may not be representative of what they’re putting out now.

 

[Shorty1029]

I put the SSBC kit on my '71 Dart GT about 20 years ago. So far I haven't needed any replacement parts, but I'm always looking for part numbers/information about the parts SSBC used (bearings, seals, hoses, etc...). If you @Shorty1029 can assist with part numbers it would be greatly appreciated.

Here is what I've discovered (here on FABO):

View attachment 1716504429
View attachment 1716504430

Thank you for the info. Let me try to gather the part numbers on my SSBC system and I will get back to you.

 

[Shorty1029]

SSBC went bankrupt a few years back and were sold and reopened. So if your experience with their products isn’t after that it may not be representative of what they’re putting out now.

Yes Sir. I bought this system about a year ago.

 

[Shorty1029]

It’s not crazy to think that could have an effect on the steering shake. It wouldn’t be my first thing to suspect but that doesn’t mean it’s not the problem.

When is this shake occurring? All the time? At certain speeds? Only when braking?

The other thing is, you’ve shown that the studs aren’t centered, but, is the hub itself centered? Is the center register of the wheel tight on the hub? The factory wheels are hub centric, aftermarket wheels are often lug centric. If the wheel is lug centric then the studs not being centered could absolutely cause the wheel shake. If the wheel is hub centric then the studs not being perfectly centered might not cause the shake as long as the hub itself is centered. Which is not to say that the lugs being off center isn’t an issue, just maybe not THE issue.

It certainly shows lousy craftsmanship, so, it might not be the only problem with those rotors and hubs.

Other stuff to check would be that the wheel bearings are properly seated and have the correct end play, and any run out on the hub and rotor.

The shaking occurs while driving but is worse at around 40-50 mph... not when braking. The pictures you see had the same test done to ensure the hub was centered and they are perfect. I will need to see from my installer if it is hub centric or lug centric as I am not sure what that means exactly. He did mention that he tried to perfectly center the wheels as the lugs do not go thru the wheel holes of my Cragers. I never had this problem with my drum brake system and the same wheels. Hoses, brackets, etc. all had to be modified to make this system fit/work. SSBC even had to make a castle nut because the one they provide didn't work. I do not know alot about this as I am sure you can see, but my guy has had his shop for 40 years and has owned about 30-40 Mopars so i didnt see this being an issue. I should have went with my gut and went with the bigger bolt pattern Willwood set up. He had used SSBC on many b-bodies in the past with no issues. Sick about this. Next step would be to go back to the old drum set up I guess.

 

[Shorty1029]

Don't they require offset shims between the hub and rotor?

I dont know.

Have you connected with SSBC? I have been using their products for 20 years and always found them responsive. Why look for rotors elsewhere when they should make this right?

Confirming the Kelsey Hayes set up uses a different spindle than drum brakes - that's the point of the SSBC set up, adding disk brakes while using the drum spindle and suspension components.

Oh I have been in contact with them on many issues... wrong brackets, brake hoses too short. They had to machine a new castle nut because the one in the kit was wrong... had to send them videos to prove the studs were off center. Yeah this has been going on for months. Now I wait... again. I m not one to bad mouth a Company I deal with, but the facts of this process will end up on every Mopar group, page, blog etc. and the readers can choose to buy SSBC or not. Im all about buying American and small businesses, all I want is for you to stand behind your product, nothing more.

 

[72bluNblu]

The shaking occurs while driving but is worse at around 40-50 mph... not when braking. The pictures you see had the same test done to ensure the hub was centered and they are perfect. I will need to see from my installer if it is hub centric or lug centric as I am not sure what that means exactly. He did mention that he tried to perfectly center the wheels as the lugs do not go thru the wheel holes of my Cragers. I never had this problem with my drum brake system and the same wheels. Hoses, brackets, etc. all had to be modified to make this system fit/work. SSBC even had to make a castle nut because the one they provide didn't work. I do not know alot about this as I am sure you can see, but my guy has had his shop for 40 years and has owned about 30-40 Mopars so i didnt see this being an issue. I should have went with my gut and went with the bigger bolt pattern Willwood set up. He had used SSBC on many b-bodies in the past with no issues. Sick about this. Next step would be to go back to the old drum set up I guess.

So, the shaking goes away when you’re on the brakes?

If that’s the case that’s actually helpful. If the studs were causing the shake it should happen all the time regardless of braking. If the shake goes away when braking that frequently is a bearing issue of some kind, the calipers holding the rotors takes the pressure/end play on the bearings out of the picture.

For example, if the bearings aren’t fully seated on the races, or there’s too much end play you’ll get a wobble at the rotors because of the play. But, when your step on the brakes the calipers grab the rotors and keep the rotors from wobbling.

 

[DartGTDan]

Thank you for the info. Let me try to gather the part numbers on my SSBC system and I will get back to you.

Thank you!

 

[Shorty1029]

So, the shaking goes away when you’re on the brakes?

If that’s the case that’s actually helpful. If the studs were causing the shake it should happen all the time regardless of braking. If the shake goes away when braking that frequently is a bearing issue of some kind, the calipers holding the rotors takes the pressure/end play on the bearings out of the picture.

For example, if the bearings aren’t fully seated on the races, or there’s too much end play you’ll get a wobble at the rotors because of the play. But, when your step on the brakes the calipers grab the rotors and keep the rotors from wobbling.

 

[Shorty1029]

Thanks for the info the steering wheel shake doesn’t start until you get to 40- 50 mph and doesn’t shake during braking. SSBC did agree to send me a new set of rotors to try, so I got to give them credit for trying to help. I will try the rotors in the Spring when I get the Demon out of storage and then go from there with bearings, etc. Worse case back to drums. Much appreciated!

 

[AbodyBB]

So a few things. Cragar wheels are always lug centric. They are a “universal” design and don’t try to center on the hub.
Phord hubs are significantly smaller than Mopar even the small bolt pattern.
Factory Kelsey Hayes brakes had the caliper mounted to the rear on A bodies and front on the Phords. SSBC wants you to put the caliper to the front like the Phord. That needs the hard line to be moved to the front of the suspension. For Mopars this is wrong. Mount the caliper on the rear of the spindle and brake line issues go away. Also you do not want to route the brake line through the suspension. This necessitates that the calipers are swapped right to left so the bleeder is pointed up.
The phord disc system uses the same brake line as the Mopar drum if I recall correctly.
Sadly the only rotor that works on your set up is the SSBC rotor. They custom machine them in house to fit. (Wheel bearing locations are changed)
You can buy replacements from summit. But trying to go through SSBC direct is difficult.
Forgive me if I sound a bit short. I’m trying to put a number of thoughts out to help.

 

[Shorty1029]

So a few things. Cragar wheels are always lug centric. They are a “universal” design and don’t try to center on the hub.
Phord hubs are significantly smaller than Mopar even the small bolt pattern.
Factory Kelsey Hayes brakes had the caliper mounted to the rear on A bodies and front on the Phords. SSBC wants you to put the caliper to the front like the Phord. That needs the hard line to be moved to the front of the suspension. For Mopars this is wrong. Mount the caliper on the rear of the spindle and brake line issues go away. Also you do not want to route the brake line through the suspension. This necessitates that the calipers are swapped right to left so the bleeder is pointed up.
The phord disc system uses the same brake line as the Mopar drum if I recall correctly.
Sadly the only rotor that works on your set up is the SSBC rotor. They custom machine them in house to fit. (Wheel bearing locations are changed)
You can buy replacements from summit. But trying to go through SSBC direct is difficult.
Forgive me if I sound a bit short. I’m trying to put a number of thoughts out to help.

No problem. I will take any and all the help I can get at this point.Much appreciated. I did receive a new set of rotors from SSBC to try in the Spring. I will pass this info along to my mechanic as I am that knowledgeable. I did my research as to what options I have without going to a larger bolt pattern and SSBC seems to be the only option for the small bolt pattern. I know my mechanic and SSBC had many discussions about how to mount calipers due to fitment issues, etc.
Those conversations were way over my head unfortunately.
SSBC did tell me that the rotors are not customer made, but cast/molded by the 100s so they don’t believe the rotors are the problem. Car stops fine but the shake in the steering is bad at 35-50 mph. Looks like we will try the rotors and then go back to drums I guess if that don’t help.

 

[72bluNblu]

No problem. I will take any and all the help I can get at this point.Much appreciated. I did receive a new set of rotors from SSBC to try in the Spring. I will pass this info along to my mechanic as I am that knowledgeable. I did my research as to what options I have without going to a larger bolt pattern and SSBC seems to be the only option for the small bolt pattern. I know my mechanic and SSBC had many discussions about how to mount calipers due to fitment issues, etc.
Those conversations were way over my head unfortunately.
SSBC did tell me that the rotors are not customer made, but cast/molded by the 100s so they don’t believe the rotors are the problem. Car stops fine but the shake in the steering is bad at 35-50 mph. Looks like we will try the rotors and then go back to drums I guess if that don’t help.

DoctorDiff sells the 73+ disk brake conversions with a small bolt pattern option. It’s not quite that simple, because the 73+ disk brake conversion widens the track width compared to the KH style disks. So just because the pattern matches doesn’t necessarily mean your wheels will still fit.

The other thing is, if you switch back to drums and that solves the problem, you have will have confirmed that the SSBC kit was the issue.

And their explanation of how the rotors are made doesn’t let them off the hook. Just because the rotors are cast by the hundreds doesn’t mean there aren’t defective ones. It doesn’t even mean they don’t have an entire bad batch, because as we know just because someone bought a brake kit doesn’t mean they installed it the next day and tested the car. People order parts and don’t get to actually installing them for months. And even people that install them right away may not have that car on the road for months or even years. They could have dozens of defective parts out there and not heard back about them yet.

 

[Shorty1029]

Well the new rotors solved the front end shake. I appreciate SSBC replacing the rotors, but making us jump thru hoops to do so was ridiculous after all the other issues we dealt with. I can not recommend them or their products.

 

[DartGTDan]

Well the new rotors solved the front end shake. I appreciate SSBC replacing the rotors, but making us jump thru hoops to do so was ridiculous after all the other issues we dealt with. I can not recommend them or their products.

Glad you got it all figured out!

Any chance you could help me out (please see my previous post above (#8))?

TIA

 

[Shorty1029]

Glad you got it all figured out!

Any chance you could help me out (please see my previous post above (#8))?

TIA

I will look again for a parts list. We had to make brake hoses and brackets.

 

[AbodyBB]

I put the SSBC kit on my '71 Dart GT about 20 years ago. So far I haven't needed any replacement parts, but I'm always looking for part numbers/information about the parts SSBC used (bearings, seals, hoses, etc...). If you @Shorty1029 can assist with part numbers it would be greatly appreciated.

Here is what I've discovered (here on FABO):

View attachment 1716504429
View attachment 1716504430

So when looking for parts for these kits,

Inner bearing, 66 mustang and Mopar A body w 10 in drum (A6)
Outer 10 in drum Mopar and heavy
Duty ford mustang (A2)
Inner seal mustang National 6815
Calipers are all Kelsey Hayes parts. Mustang or Mopar A body. The only difference between the two is the location of the fluid port.
Rubber hose is the mustang hose as well.
While they are still available you may
Want to buy a pair of new calipers and store them.

Rotors are an SSBC custom machined part. You have to buy your rotor from them.