Still hard starting

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7duster4

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My 318 is still having issues starting when warm. It's a mild 318 with eddy intake and 600cfm electric choke carb. Just today it was doing it. Went for a drive, shut the car off for maybe ten minutes. Without pumping the gas just turning the key it wouldn't fire, just crank. I pumped the pedal a couple times and still just kept cranking and wouldnt catch. I assume I flooded it then so I let it sit for a minute. This carb seems to flood rather easily. I finally got it going. I should also mention that I installed a edelbrock heat gasket between the carb and intake. Dosn't seem to have had any effect at all. Cranks fine dosn't sound weak. What else could be causing this? The coil is a new MSD blaster 2, wires are taylor and plugs are autolite 66.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
What cam is in it? What else done to the engine? What are your timing specs like? (initial, total)
 
The 318 has a 340 cam and compression is 9:1. Edelbrock performer intake and 600cfm. Light head work. I believe the total timing is around 34* to 36*. Im can't remember where the initial is at. Im thinking 10-12*. I have read that too much timing will make the cranking sound weak. Not sure if thats true or not. But mine is very quick. I guess it wouldn't hurt to check the timing sometime to see exactly where it's at.
 
How old is the timing chain? Does timing bounce when you try to time it? Also, have you set the electric choke, they can be adjusted. Do you have power to the choke, this is a must or you will have issues.
 
dano said:
How old is the timing chain? Does timing bounce when you try to time it? Also, have you set the electric choke, they can be adjusted. Do you have power to the choke, this is a must or you will have issues.
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A new timing chain was installed when the engine was rebuilt a few years ago. It dose not bounce when setting the timing. The electric choke is getting power. When sitting for a few days I give it one full pump. Fires right up. 15 minutes after running it will crank more than it should. Regarding the choke. The dash on the black cylinder/wheel is almost in the middle when lined up to the dashes. Is that where it should be? Should I try adjusting it some? Lean or rich?

Thanks
 
The adjustment basically increases or decreased the time that the choke is on. So I think if you go in the lean direction, it will open faster. Has the car ever died on you while running? I had the spark computer do this to me, when it got hot, the board would separate, cool, and come back together and work until it got hot again. Hace you checked for spark when it won't start? Sounds like your chain is not the issue, how long has this been happening? Any conditions that it doen't happen like really cold days.

Another thing to note, when I had an Edelbrock that was having issues, they seem to be pretty sensitive to fuel pressure, like no more than 6 psi or something like that. Like stated above, if it won't start, pull the air cleaner and look to see if the throat of the carb is really wet and it should reak of gas, if so, you flooding it. have you looked at the plugs, they will also be fouled if it's flooding.
 
dano said:
The adjustment basically increases or decreased the time that the choke is on. So I think if you go in the lean direction, it will open faster. Has the car ever died on you while running? I had the spark computer do this to me, when it got hot, the board would separate, cool, and come back together and work until it got hot again. Hace you checked for spark when it won't start? Sounds like your chain is not the issue, how long has this been happening? Any conditions that it doen't happen like really cold days.

Another thing to note, when I had an Edelbrock that was having issues, they seem to be pretty sensitive to fuel pressure, like no more than 6 psi or something like that. Like stated above, if it won't start, pull the air cleaner and look to see if the throat of the carb is really wet and it should reak of gas, if so, you flooding it. have you looked at the plugs, they will also be fouled if it's flooding.
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This has been going on since we changed the carb. Went from 500cfm to 600cfm. Which has been almost a month. I added the heat gasket and still no change. It hasn't quit on me while running or while ideling at a stop. No miss or stutter. Do you think I should lean the choke? If so what direction would I turn the wheel? Everything is great if it has been sitting for a long period. If its warm I would assume I would just turn the key and it would fire up but no chance. I also notice sometimes there is very little to no fuel sitting in the fuel filter. It's a clear glass one. When I shut it off sometimes some will stay in it other times it all drains down. Is that normal? I would think it would stay full for a while. Next time I have it out i'll check the throat in the carb.

Thanks for all your help
 
Lose that fuel filter. It's allowing a ton of crap into the carb... I dont think you should touch the choke if it's fine when cold.
 
moper said:
Lose that fuel filter. It's allowing a ton of crap into the carb... I dont think you should touch the choke if it's fine when cold.
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I agree with this, I had one of these and it filled the bowls in a 600 Holley I had with crap. Leave the choke where it is and pop the top off the Edelbrock, as I understand they are every sensitive to debris in the carb, you might pull it and give it a good cleaning. You can download direction from Edelbrock. Don't be afraid of the carb, they are really easy to work on and you can't mess much up.
 
When you changed the carb, did you plug the vent line that comes, to the engine compartment, beside the fuel line?
I recently was having trouble with our Duster and it was caused by the fuel tank vent hose being kinked, back at the tank. The reason I figured it out was, because when the gas cap was opened, the tank would inhale. I also noticed the fuel filter wasn't staying full.
 
Beforewe switched the carburetor we took it apart and clean it real good. Got in every crevice. It was actually clean to begin with. A new accelerator pump was installed. Are the clear glass filters a bad part? What kind should I install? I won't mess with the choke.

sst3193 - I am not sure what you mean by the vent line. There is a rubber hose going from the tank up to the charcol canister. Is that the one your talking about? A tiny hole has been drilled for venting where the gas cap screws on. Now that I think of it the fuel filter was always full of gas with the old carburetor. But since the 600cfm has been swapped on that hasn't been the case. Is this a venting issue?

I appreciate everyones feedback. Thanks!
 
I use a Fram replacement fuel filter for a 69 Dart GTS 340, it seems to be a stock item as a lot of cars use that filter. I don't think it's uncommon for the filter to drain back over time. As per he vent in your gad cap, that may not need to be there sense you have a canister purge for the fuel vapors from the tank. Do you have the carb hooked up to the charcoal canister?

One other question, how old is your battery? I've seen situation where the battery will turn the car over but not have enough juice to power the electronic ignition.

Were there any modifications you made and this happened? like the coil, wires, etc?
 
7duster4 said:
My 318 is still having issues starting when warm. It's a mild 318 with eddy intake and 600cfm electric choke carb. Just today it was doing it. Went for a drive, shut the car off for maybe ten minutes. Without pumping the gas just turning the key it wouldn't fire, just crank. I pumped the pedal a couple times and still just kept cranking and wouldnt catch. I assume I flooded it then so I let it sit for a minute. This carb seems to flood rather easily. I finally got it going. I should also mention that I installed a edelbrock heat gasket between the carb and intake. Dosn't seem to have had any effect at all. Cranks fine dosn't sound weak. What else could be causing this? The coil is a new MSD blaster 2, wires are taylor and plugs are autolite 66.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

This may not fix your problem but I am sure it could help.
I personally do not like autolite plugs, I have had bad luck with them in multiple vehicles.
I have seen the electrodes burned clean off,I have seen any and all porcelain exposed to the internal cylinder desinagrated.
They were just not made with as high of quality of materials as some of the other brands.

And the things I had mentioned seeing were not in neglected vehicles or over due on maintenance,they were just out of the blue type of things.
I personally like running champions in my chyslers.
Just something to think about.
 
My 273 does something similar. Crappy gas, carb boils, floods out = hard start. The carb gets hot and percolates out of the accelerator pump. I just hold the pedal half way when starting and no problems. Maybe there is a fix?

My Coronet did the same thing with dual 600 Edelbrocks. I put on a tunnel ram and it starts perfect now because the carbs stay cool.
 
dano said:
I use a Fram replacement fuel filter for a 69 Dart GTS 340, it seems to be a stock item as a lot of cars use that filter. I don't think it's uncommon for the filter to drain back over time. As per he vent in your gad cap, that may not need to be there sense you have a canister purge for the fuel vapors from the tank. Do you have the carb hooked up to the charcoal canister?

One other question, how old is your battery? I've seen situation where the battery will turn the car over but not have enough juice to power the electronic ignition.

Were there any modifications you made and this happened? like the coil, wires, etc?
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The carb is not hooked up to the canister. The battery is a few years old. The only thing we did before hand was change the carburetor. Lately if it dosn't immediatley turn over I just hold the pedal to floor and it fires up. That seems to work. If I can borrow a timing light and can re-check it. I'll keep the fram fuel filter in mind for when I need a new one.
 
7duster4 said:
The carb is not hooked up to the canister. The battery is a few years old. The only thing we did before hand was change the carburetor. Lately if it dosn't immediatley turn over I just hold the pedal to floor and it fires up. That seems to work. If I can borrow a timing light and can re-check it. I'll keep the fram fuel filter in mind for when I need a new one.
Click to expand...

I would try the suggestion to drive your car for about 10 miles, leave it running, hop out and pull the gas cap, if you get a massive vacuum sound, you have an issue with your tank not venting, so you might need to hook up your canister or vent somehow, just a theory.

and/or

Richen your choke one notch?
 
dano said:
I would try the suggestion to drive your car for about 10 miles, leave it running, hop out and pull the gas cap, if you get a massive vacuum sound, you have an issue with your tank not venting, so you might need to hook up your canister or vent somehow, just a theory.

and/or

Richen your choke one notch?
Click to expand...

That sounds like its worth a try. If all is good then i'll just stick to putting the gas to the floor until it fires up lol. Seems to be the best method as of right now. Im just a little dissapointed that edelbrock heat gasket didn't help. At least it was cheap. Thanks for all your help and info. I will write an update next time I take it out.

Thanks again.
 
Honestly I think this is an "un-curable" problem, and not one that you should have concern over. When you park your car and it sits there, any fuel that was in liquid form that was sitting in your intake or that dripped off of the boosters in the carb vaporize and mix with the air. However, there isn't enough oxygen in the air sitting inside your intake to burn correctly with the gas vapors. Additionally, as you probably know today's pump gas is full of detergents and additives designed for EFI vehicles; these vaporizing only make the problem worse.

All you have to do when you go to hot-start your car is push the gas pedal down about 1/3 of the way (NO pumping) and crank it until it starts. If it takes longer than a second or two then give it maybe one pump, but it shouldn't need any more gas.
 
No, it should start hot without even turning two full reolutions. No hitting the gas, no nothing. If it's hot, get in, turn the key and it should WANT to run. So back to cylinder pressure readings?
 
Edelbrock carbs are known to boil the fuel in their bowls. I've read of people making a deflector plate to keep some heat off the carb. How tall is your heat spacer? Carb's Atomize fuel, so do Fuel injectors. Depending on your area, in the summer they add an additive to help it not vaporize as easily at the pump.
 
moper said:
No, it should start hot without even turning two full reolutions. No hitting the gas, no nothing. If it's hot, get in, turn the key and it should WANT to run. So back to cylinder pressure readings?
Click to expand...

Well then that must mean there's something wrong with my 318, because it's done that EVERY time I've hot-started it whether it had its original BBD, old ThermoQuad, or a newer Edelbrock 600 (and before and after I rebuilt the top end). Cranking compression is great for this altitude and it pulls 15" of vacuum at idle in park (about 12 in gear) which is also pretty good for 7000'. I also have initial timing set at 12* (+/- 1*) and my spark plugs show that timing as being spot-on. Also, my friend's mostly-stock 360 4-bbl. in his '73 B200 van acts the same way. The crappy pump gas (I use 85-octane around here 'cause it's regular, tried 87 and it made no difference at all) combined with the high altitude and Carter/Edelbrock carb makes hot-starting more difficult.

All I'm saying is that if his car runs perfectly fine otherwise then I don't think there's anything for him to worry about.
 
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