Stock Hyd Roller Lifter Limit

[mopowers]

What is the duration/lift limit for stock hydraulic roller lifters.

For those of you running stock roller lifters, what cams are you running?

Thanks!

 

[RustyRatRod]

I'm not aware they have a limit.

 

[crackedback]

The biggest issue is them leaking pressure out the bores. Too much lift on a larger base circle will cause it. Plenty of higher lift cams get cut on a smaller base circle to keep it from occurring.

 

[rumblefish360]

While you can grind one that will out rpm the Hyd lifters ability, what that rpm is, is a good question.

The lifer has spring pressure limits.

 

[mopowers]

Thanks guys. The reason I'm asking is I've reached out to a couple cam companies and have been told that stock roller lifters can't really handle aggressive lobe profiles because the acceleration rates (and necessary valve spring pressure) will tend to collapse stock lifters.

I'm basically looking for a hydraulic roller street cam around .340-.350" lobe lift (.550" -ish at the valve with 1.6's) and in the 230-235* @0.050" duration range that will work with stock style lifters. Something that'll be in 100% street car. Is that too much to ask of stock lifters?

I will certainly verify the oiling groove won't be uncovered on either end - up or down, but besides that, is there a duration/lift (or spring pressure) I should use as a threshold? I'm really hoping to hear from folks who have used stock lifters for camshafts around this size.

 

[middleagecrisis]

I ran ~.540 lift on stock ford roller lifters and didn’t have any issues. The Ford alphabet roller cams were designed for stock roller lifters and you could get into the mid .500 lift with 1.7 ratio rockers. I’d think the factory mopar roller lifters should work on just about anything you could street drive.

 

[cpearce]

I'm running 237-241@ .050 and .580 lift with no issues. Stock Melling replacement lifters.

 

[crackedback]

Thanks guys. The reason I'm asking is I've reached out to a couple cam companies and have been told that stock roller lifters can't really handle aggressive lobe profiles because the acceleration rates (and necessary valve spring pressure) will tend to collapse stock lifters.

I'm basically looking for a hydraulic roller street cam around .340-.350" lobe lift (.550" -ish at the valve with 1.6's) and in the 230-235* @0.050" duration range that will work with stock style lifters. Something that'll be in 100% street car. Is that too much to ask of stock lifters?

I will certainly verify the oiling groove won't be uncovered on either end - up or down, but besides that, is there a duration/lift (or spring pressure) I should use as a threshold? I'm really hoping to hear from folks who have used stock lifters for camshafts around this size.

Should be just fine.

 

[Bewy]

Firstly, a cam with high lobe lift [ relatively speaking ] is going to have a small base circle. There is no such thing as high lift on a large base circle.
The higher spring pressures reqd with aggressive lobes is going to cause more bleed-down of the lifter at lower rpms. Thicker oil may compensate.

 

[mopowers]

I'm running 237-241@ .050 and .580 lift with no issues. Stock Melling replacement lifters.

Thank you. That's good to hear. I'm curious where you got the cam from. Is it an off the shelf deal? Is that .580 with 1.5 or 1.6 rockers?

 

[cpearce]

Hughes custom grind using 1.6:1 rockers. Not quite .580, but close to it.

 

[crackedback]

Firstly, a cam with high lobe lift [ relatively speaking ] is going to have a small base circle. There is no such thing as high lift on a large base circle.
The higher spring pressures reqd with aggressive lobes is going to cause more bleed-down of the lifter at lower rpms. Thicker oil may compensate.

LOL Got to be a obtuse. It was a comparison of cutting the base smaller to adjust for lift issues. Who is going to cut a high lift cam on a large(r) base circle. You have to be an idiot to think that, well done. The OP understood and you didn't so you could go about it as usual.

The standard base circle they grind will push them out the top. Not that they are cutting it on a larger circle. Have them cut it on a smaller to start.

Have at it. I won't see your response.

 

[4mulas]

I think you’ll be okay. Morel has good spring pressure range and I think a tighter groove for better lifter travel/preventative oiling issues too, but you’d need to confirm that

 

[mopowers]

Hughes custom grind using 1.6:1 rockers. Not quite .580, but close to it.

View attachment 1716342533

Thanks! So .360 at the lobe. That's what I was looking for. Does that cam work with a stock oil pump drive gear? Thank you again.

I think you’ll be okay. Morel has good spring pressure range and I think a tighter groove for better lifter travel/preventative oiling issues too, but you’d need to confirm that

Thank you. I'll be using stock lifters in this particular build. It's not a high hp type of build. Just a little cruiser, but I would like to take advantage of the better-than-stock flow of my RHS heads. Just looking to see what folks have run on their stock lifter setups.

 

[cpearce]

Thanks! So .360 at the lobe. That's what I was looking for. Does that cam work with a stock oil pump drive gear? Thank you again.


Thank you. I'll be using stock lifters in this particular build. It's not a high hp type of build. Just a little cruiser, but I would like to take advantage of the better-than-stock flow of my RHS heads. Just looking to see what folks have run on their stock lifter setups.

Yes, did not require bronze distributor gear.

 

[4mulas]

Hughes custom grind using 1.6:1 rockers. Not quite .580, but close to it.

View attachment 1716342533

Is yours LA or Magnum? Hughes doesn’t seem to list that one anymore. Wondering what heads you used and if they needed work to accommodate lift over 525. I have magnum with magnum r/t heads and I think one is cautioned for using cams over that value without working them over to accommodate the extra lift.

You car must sound great! Post vid with a sound bite if you get a chance!

 

[cpearce]

Is yours LA or Magnum? Hughes doesn’t seem to lit]st that one anymore. Wondering what heads you used and if they needed work to accommodate lift over 525. I have magnum with magnum r/t heads and I think one is cautioned for using cams over that value without working them over to accommodate the extra lift.

You car must sound great! Post vid with a sound bite if you get a chance!

91 Roller LA block. You won't see that cam listed, never was a shelf cam. This was a custom grind.

 

[cpearce]

I'll try to figure out how to post video

 

[TT5.9mag]

Thanks guys. The reason I'm asking is I've reached out to a couple cam companies and have been told that stock roller lifters can't really handle aggressive lobe profiles because the acceleration rates (and necessary valve spring pressure) will tend to collapse stock lifters.

I'm basically looking for a hydraulic roller street cam around .340-.350" lobe lift (.550" -ish at the valve with 1.6's) and in the 230-235* @0.050" duration range that will work with stock style lifters. Something that'll be in 100% street car. Is that too much to ask of stock lifters?

I will certainly verify the oiling groove won't be uncovered on either end - up or down, but besides that, is there a duration/lift (or spring pressure) I should use as a threshold? I'm really hoping to hear from folks who have used stock lifters for camshafts around this size.

I think you’ll be ok there, but you need to check the original link bars to make sure they don’t top out and hit the non recessed side of the lifter. I measured when I did mine and they cleared but that’s the first spot where you’ll run into problems. I forget what I measured as their max allowable movement. The aggressiveness of the lobe is not a concern the stock hydraulics (if clean and check valves are working correctly) will handle just about any lobe you throw at em, within reason.

 

[mopowers]

I think you’ll be ok there, but you need to check the original link bars to make sure they don’t top out and hit the non recessed side of the lifter. I measured when I did mine and they cleared but that’s the first spot where you’ll run into problems. I forget what I measured as their max allowable movement. The aggressiveness of the lobe is not a concern the stock hydraulics (if clean and check valves are working correctly) will handle just about any lobe you throw at em, within reason.

Thanks man. I appreciate it. I'll definitely check for that. Do you recall what your cam specs were/are?

 

[TT5.9mag]

Thanks man. I appreciate it. I'll definitely check for that. Do you recall what your cam specs were/are?

Mine is a custom ground hydraulic roller from comp that Brian at IMM came up with for my twin turbo w2 drag week deal. It’s 222/226 @050 (280/284adv) on a 109 sep. .358 lobe lift .537 at the valve with 1.5s and I run 1.6s on it.

 

[TT5.9mag]

@RAMM was doing some pretty interesting stuff with rollers here

360 Magnum Build SFS (S-crounging F-or S-craps)

Not sure how far he went with it though.

 

[Bewy]

Crackedback,
Stop posting bullshit & nobody will criticise you. Whatever you are smoking isn't working.....

 

[mopowers]

Mine is a custom ground hydraulic roller from comp that Brian at IMM came up with for my twin turbo w2 drag week deal. It’s 222/226 @050 (280/284adv) on a 109 sep. .358 lobe lift .537 at the valve with 1.5s and I run 1.6s on it.

Thank you! I've been researching a bunch of 408 combos on this site using the search function and talking with Rob (crackedback). He had a very similar 360 build to what I'm shooting for. I'm just looking for something with a broad flat torque curve and good street manners. Something in the 230@.050 and .550" on a 110 range should do it.

I'm also leaning toward a re-grind to be able to use what I've got. I just have to talk to Ken at Oregon cams one more time to make sure the necessary valve springs will work on a regrind like that and not kill the cam or stock lifters. I also need to verify the LSA of what I've got since it sounds like the regrind won't be able to move it more than a couple degrees. If I do go re-grind, I don't imagine the lifters hitting the dogbones will be an issue either.

A few regrinds to choose from would be:

Alternatively, there are a couple Howards grinds that should work fine too.

DODGE Howards Cams 710525-10 Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts | Summit Racing
DODGE Howards Cams 712105-10 Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts | Summit Racing

Sounds like any of these should work out just fine.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Thank you! I've been researching a bunch of 408 combos on this site using the search function and talking with Rob (crackedback). He had a very similar 360 build to what I'm shooting for. I'm just looking for something with a broad flat torque curve and good street manners. Something in the 230@.050 and .550" on a 110 range should do it.

I'm also leaning toward a re-grind to be able to use what I've got. I just have to talk to Ken at Oregon cams one more time to make sure the necessary valve springs will work on a regrind like that and not kill the cam or stock lifters. I also need to verify the LSA of what I've got since it sounds like the regrind won't be able to move it more than a couple degrees. If I do go re-grind, I don't imagine the lifters hitting the dogbones will be an issue either.

A few regrinds to choose from would be:

View attachment 1716342863

Alternatively, there are a couple Howards grinds that should work fine too.

DODGE Howards Cams 710525-10 Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts | Summit Racing
DODGE Howards Cams 712105-10 Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts | Summit Racing

Sounds like any of these should work out just fine.

With 400+ inches you can get away with a little more duration but I wouldn’t get carried away on a street car. Youll likely be happier the smaller you go. That said I think you’re in the ballpark (226-236 at 050 for intake duration, ~.550 lift and 108-112 lobe sep) with your choices and the people you’re working with are smart dudes. It doesn’t hurt to call around and get 4-5 recommendations from different cam guys. And remember it’s just a roller cam, if you don’t like it yank it out and replace it with something else. It only takes a few hours and some gaskets.