Stumped with a Idler Arm issue

[straightlinespeed]

Hi guys, the idler arm in my car has a odd issue and its only got maybe 1500 miles on it.

Im working on the suspension on my 71 scamp. Replacing all the components under the car. I wasnt going to replace the pitman arm or idler arm since I replaced those when I was rebuilding the car initially.

When I was under the car and knocking the tie rods loose I turned the wheels and noticed that the center link appeared to jumped. I moved it back and forth a few times and I had movement coming from the idler arm. So I removed everything from the center link and grabbed it with my hands, I could move the arm. So needless to say I removed the rest of it.

Here is what I found (I know, finally) the bolt that came with the arm (Moog) is sloppy in the sleeve thru the center of the arm. That is where the movement is coming from. I thought maybe I had the wrong size bolt so I went to the local hardware store and tried others in the arm. Nothing fit except the 9/16" bolt that came with the arm. The bolt is not worn at all and everything looks like its in great condition.

Im leary to buy another idler arm and have the same issue so Im curious if some amount of movement is normal from that or should it be tight? That sleeve area is greaseable and I assume it should twist in the arm and not around the bolt since grease does not get to the bolt because of the sleeve.

 

[mvh]

I think you need to shim the sleeve with washers at one end (or both) until it is tight, so that when you tighten the bolt the bracket can clamp it in place.

At least, I recall adding a flat washer when I installed mine. I only recently upgraded my K member to the 68-72 style. The original 67 idler is of course, completely different.

 

[6pk2goDemon]

You may be missing the washers as mvh mentions....

 

[straightlinespeed]

Very interesting, you both are absolutely correct! I did not get any washers with my arm. Im sure I can find some washers that will fit in the space though. I'll give that a try tomorrow, hopefully it takes care of my issue.

 

[BrianT]

I just put a Moog idler arm on and it came with the kit shown above. I know, because I could only get one of the washers in? Do I need to go back and try and open up the mounts to get both in?

 

[straightlinespeed]

I just put a Moog idler arm on and it came with the kit shown above. I know, because I could only get one of the washers in? Do I need to go back and try and open up the mounts to get both in?

I did some more researching after I saw that pic that was posted. From what I gather, you just need to get one washer in there. Either top, bottom or if there is that much room then use both.

I didnt think that I even had enough room to get a washer in there and it was already fairly tight. When I tightened the bolt I thought it would pinch the sleeve, but there just must be enough gap in there I need that washer. That is going to be one of my projects today, figure this out.. The other is to adjust my steering box.

 

[BrianT]

That's good to know.

I know this isn't the correct method per the manual, but when we adjusted my steering box we loosened the nut and tightened the screw until the slack was gone then backed it off a bit. It was still catching a little when you went around a corner so we backed it off in 1/8 turn increments until the binding went away. It really tightened up the old box.

It's worth noting that we did this in the parking lot at work and not on the city streets. If you get the box too tight, it may bind up and the wheels won't return to straight ahead.

 

[straightlinespeed]

Good, info. I do have the manual for the car and was reading thru it last night. I think I may take it apart to clean and check the grease while Im at it. The damn fill plug is stripped on mine and is sitting in there crooked so I want to fix that also.

I have a lot of play in the steering wheel when I drive, that is why I want to fix this. Hopefully I still have some adjustment left in the box. I only have a couple threads showing on that adjustment screw.

On a side, side note.. Can I use anti seize on the suspension parts such as the LCA pivot shaft nuts, torsion bar adjuster bolts, etc...

 

[Snake]

Good, info. I do have the manual for the car and was reading thru it last night. I think I may take it apart to clean and check the grease while Im at it. The damn fill plug is stripped on mine and is sitting in there crooked so I want to fix that also.

I have a lot of play in the steering wheel when I drive, that is why I want to fix this. Hopefully I still have some adjustment left in the box. I only have a couple threads showing on that adjustment screw.

On a side, side note.. Can I use anti seize on the suspension parts such as the LCA pivot shaft nuts, torsion bar adjuster bolts, etc...

I dont see why not it works like grease as well.

 

[TrailBeast]

The bracket on the K frame for the idler arm is supposed to pinch the tube tight that is in the center of the arm, but not bind the arm itself. (so the bolt being a little sloppy in the K bracket holes doesn't matter much)
Use the washers to take up the play between the arm and the bracket on the K. and the foam washers to close up areas where dust could get in.

 

[RustyRatRod]

In fact, in the service manual and the Mopar suspension manual, it shows how to file the idler arm mounting holes in order to position the idler correctly. There is a specific measurement for several points of the steering linkage to the floor. The Mopar suspension book covers it well. People argue me down all the time that is only used for race cars, but I have set every Mopar up I ever owned by those diagrams and they were always some of the best driving cars I ever owned.

 

[straightlinespeed]

The bracket on the K frame for the idler arm is supposed to pinch the tube tight that is in the center of the arm, but not bind the arm itself. (so the bolt being a little sloppy in the K bracket holes doesn't matter much)
Use the washers to take up the play between the arm and the bracket on the K. and the foam washers to close up areas where dust could get in.

Thanks Greg!

In fact, in the service manual and the Mopar suspension manual, it shows how to file the idler arm mounting holes in order to position the idler correctly. There is a specific measurement for several points of the steering linkage to the floor. The Mopar suspension book covers it well. People argue me down all the time that is only used for race cars, but I have set every Mopar up I ever owned by those diagrams and they were always some of the best driving cars I ever owned.

Very interesting Rob, I'll have to take a look thru my chassis manual and see if I can find this info. I dont have the suspension book, but it makes sense to me that there would be some geometry measurements and such.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The points where the idler arm and pitman arm attaches to the center link and the outer tie rod attachment points are supposed to be the same measurement from the floor. Not all four the same, but the outer tie rod attachment points the same, then the idler and pitman attachment points the same. That's the biggest thing to get right.

The Mopar suspension book even outlines heating the tie rod brackets on the spindles and adjusting them up or down as needed so that they are equal. Here comes the arguments not to heat front end parts, but people have been doing it a very long time. As long as you don't heat it into a glowing pile of goo on the floor, but let it cool naturally, you've done zero to affect its hardness.

Whereas you file the idler arm mountings holes to get that point correct, you also use front end shims to shim the gear box to adjust the pitman arm attachment point. As I said before, use whatever measurements are in the book as a guide, because of differences in ride height. What's important is getting the attachment point pairs on each side the same.

Most people never do this and wonder why their cars always seem lacking in the road feel department. You'd be surprised how far out it will be. Almost every nice original, low mileage Mopar I have ever worked on, still had the shims between the gear box and K frame where the linkage was properly aligned at the factory. Through the years as front end parts are replaced, the cars lose the good road feel they had when new and a lot of times that is the reason.

 

[straightlinespeed]

That makes total sense Rob. I can tell you this, I no longer have any shims on my steering box or anywhere else for that matter. After 40 some years its hard to say if the K-Frame is still straight and true. Which Im sure it has to be in order to make these adjustments. Out of curiosity now I will take measurements as Im reassembling, just to see where these are at.