Super noisy valvetrain in my Magnum 5.9

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LXguy

LXguy

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Hey All"

I'm running a Magnum 5.9 engine in my Dart. I revved a little higher than I intended (about 7200) and picked up a tapping in the driver's side (probably #1 or #3). So, I pulled the lifters and replaced them with Mopar deals from Mancini. Also bought new Magnum pushrods at the same time. I'm running the stock rockers and the springs are whatever Hughes puts on their Iron Ram heads.

Now, the goddam thing is noisy everywhere. Sounds like a tractor or something.

I installed them the same way I did originally. Basically, turn the motor until the cylinder I was working on was "Off-lift", torqued the rockers to 20 ft.-lbs and moved to the next one.

This is the method outlined in the Mopar Magnum engine book. Can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Any help is appreciated.

Steve
 
Did you measure for the correct length pushrods? Have you confirmed oil to the rockers? Are the pushrods hollow and do the lifters have the oiling hole needed for a magnum?
 
yes, yes and yes. this is a whole Magnum engine out of a durango. the hydraulic roller lifters are stock replacements as are the pushrods, which look exactly like the ones that came out. Everything is getting oiled also.

Its a mystery for sure.



Steve
 
Yes. This thing makes ridiculous oil pressure. 45 psi @ idle hot with a stock oil pump.

Looks like the lifters that were in it before were sealed power, whereas the ones in there now are Mopar. I'm wondering if there couldn't be some difference between the two that is causing my problem.

I should probably remeasure the pushrods, as much as I hate to throw parts at stuff, I'm thinking off installing a stud rocker conversion to see if the adjustability makes any difference.
 
If you have tossed lifters and pushrods in the hole thing....I guess the next thing would be to by a new set of springs.

If you reved it that high you may have weekend the springs,if there a stock style spring that isnt designed for that high of a rpm range.

Or possibly reving that high you may have floated some valves? or had some piston slap ? does it seem to run any different? have you ran a compression test on all the cylinders to make sure all valves are seating?

And are you 100% sure what you are hearing is a tick and not a knock?

I hate to rain on the parade here but keep in mind if it turns out to be a problem you cant seem to figure out...I have one thing that I can mention that I would not rule out....
I was working on a chevy engine one time , had a tick to it....sounded just like lifters. The guy who I was working on it for had just had an intake gasket job done on it at the dealer ship and i told him I would figure out what the deal was with it.
Well I started checking over and everything seemed fine in the rockers and lifters and pushrods ...I searched the hole thing over and during my search i noticed one of the distributer cap hold down screws was missing so I started digging deeper into it. I ended up pulling the drivers side head off of it and found that whoever did the intake gasket had dropped a screw from the distributer cap down the carb and when it was started it sucked it into the cylinder and spit it out the exhaust valve and it was gone......but not before causing its damage!.

The screw had dropped in the cylinder came in between the piston and the valve,pushed the valve into the rocker and the rocker to the pushrod and pushrod to the lifter then the lifter to the came which in turn tossed it out of wack just enough to ruin the cam bearings.

The point of this story is, at as high of an rpm as you mentioned you had reved it, maybe you had some piston slap and tossed your cam out of wack....even the slightest bit of something like that happening can put a halt to your cam bearings.

Again. I hope this is not the case and I am not saying it is,just something to think about.

I hope you get it figured out with minimal hassel and money invested and good luck to you
 
Right, well I hope its not doomsday for this motor, as I really just got it installed.

I did do a leakdown on all the cylinders on the driver's side, and the numbers are identical to what they were when I originally put the motor in.

I think the springs are ok (though I haven't tested them), but they're hughes high performance springs, so i'm *guessing* that they're ok.

Before I changed anything, I was able to localize the noise to the driver's side front portion of the valve cover with a stethoscope. Of course, now it's loud everywhere, and since the only thing I changed was lifters and pushrods, its (theoretically) got to be something to do with the stuff I changed.

I wonder if its possible that I got a set of crap lifters? Though, they sure seem to be working right from observing the motor turn over, and the only time I can spin the pushrod is when the lifters are all the way down.
 
How many miles are on the engine? Did you install it as removed from the Durango?
 
LXguy said:
Right, well I hope its not doomsday for this motor, as I really just got it installed.

I did do a leakdown on all the cylinders on the driver's side, and the numbers are identical to what they were when I originally put the motor in.

I think the springs are ok (though I haven't tested them), but they're hughes high performance springs, so i'm *guessing* that they're ok.

Before I changed anything, I was able to localize the noise to the driver's side front portion of the valve cover with a stethoscope. Of course, now it's loud everywhere, and since the only thing I changed was lifters and pushrods, its (theoretically) got to be something to do with the stuff I changed.

I wonder if its possible that I got a set of crap lifters? Though, they sure seem to be working right from observing the motor turn over, and the only time I can spin the pushrod is when the lifters are all the way down.
Click to expand...

I hope it's not doomsday too. That always sucks. It's possible you just got some bad lifters. I've had it happen twice. Even then I could only spin the pushrods while the cam was on the base circle. It doesn't take hardly any pressure to stop you from spinning the pushrod. Do you have a way to check the lifter pre-load to verify it's ok? As far as the springs causing it, I kinda doubt it. I've had engines with bad springs and never had any valve train noise because of it. I even had a 350 Chevy with springs so weak it wouldn't hold the valve shut at 1000 rpm and caused a missfire and it never made noise. Just the missfire. I'd think the spring would have to be either broken or totally collapsed to cause noise. Just my .02
 
hmmmmm...not to sure, its one of those things thats hard when your not hands on with it.

Do you happen to have an old junk valve cover laying around? if so,cut the top off of it and then mount it to the head and run the engine (valve covers so you dont make a mess with oil)....and see if you can see anything odd while its under running conditions. if you have the same compression as before across the board then I am doubting the valves are in bad shape.

And as mentioned,springs are a low possibility but I have seen them cause ticking before so i would not say it could never happen but the odds are slim and even more so that you have aftermarket springs installed.

Worse case I would say is a bad cam bearings but I am not thinking that it went as far to cause that kind of problem (hoping anyhow).

I would start with the little stuff and make sure you have the correct length pushrods, double check just for the heck of it.

Does it have a stock cam or has it been changed? and are the rockers stock or are they a different ration? and are the pushrods matched to those sized components if so?.

I know from personal experience that the newer 360 lifters don't hold up well after 100,000 or so miles....but since you bought new ones...that rules worn out parts out of the problem.

But as said before,even new parts can be junk!.

You had mentioned that it got louder after you changed the lifters wich sounds like either you got a crap set of lifters or maybe someone behind the counter gave you lifters for a different application that may be a few thousands off in dimensions?

By the way it sounds i don't think you need to worry about a big problem, it sounds like you may have just got junk/wrong parts.
Good luck and I hope thats the case and be sure to keep us all posted on your finding.....and sorry for tossing in the possible problems, I was jsut letting you know of some past experiances and using them as referance to worste case scenarios to your problem
 
Mine picked up a tapping too ever since I broke a rocker bolt, but it moves around the valvetrain. Not sure, but I know I didn't overfill (5.5qts) the oil.

It's seemed relatively reliable nonetheless
 
Hey All:

The motor is slightly different than it was in the Durango. It's got a Comp Custom camshaft and these Iron Ram heads. However, I did measure the pushrod length and it was dead on at the stock length before I put it in the car.

The short block only has 50,000 miles supposedly. I did put lifters in it when I was putting it together, just for safety's sake, but I still have the stockers. The replacements I used then were sealed power. The ones I just replaced those with are Mopar. they look pretty well identical except the Mopars have the oil hole brushed purple so you know which side goes up.

Pushrods are Mopar Magnum replacements.

Fishy: You said you've gotten two sets of bad lifters before? Were they hydraulic rollers? Mopar or some other brand?

Does anyone know what the lifter preload on a Magnum is supposed to be for absolute certain?

I'll just go over everything again to make extra sure everything is as it should be.

Steve
 
All the bad ones I had were hyd flat tappet Comp lifters. Come to think of it there was 3 sets bad total. 2 sets for my engine and a set I put in a buddies 454. I don't know the spec for pre-load on a Magnum but I'd guess as long as it's at least .030 your ok. That's just my best guess though.
 
When I put my Magnum 5.9 together I used Comp Cams lifters that I got thru Mancini. the box had instructions that said to install the lifter in the dog-bone with the oil hole in ths side facing down (toard the cam). So in they went according to instructions even though the magnum engine books I have all say oil holes up (away from cam). Started up, ran great but had a fluctuation in the oil pressure. Not much but a wiggle in the needle. Then I started getting lifter noise. First one then another, pretty soon (a couple of days) they were all noisey. Contacted Comp Cams and they said that there was a misprint in the instructions for the lifters and the hole should be facing up. Pulled the intake and spider, turned them all around, put it back together and its quiet now and no fluctuatoin in the oil pressure....
 
Right, they are facing up. The magnum book says away from the crankshaft, but whatever.

Its still doing this. I'm getting ready to yank the sucker out if I can't figure it out.

Be careful! That Mopar book on the Magnums has the firing order wrong in at least one spot!

Steve
 
Are you supposed to be able to spin the pushrods with the lifters at base circle? I thought preload was done after all slack was taken out of the valvetrain, i.e. the pushrod just stops spinning. If preload is not set enough that valve train will clatter like a son of a gun.
 
Verdict is.....

Mopar lifters are junk. Put another set of Sealed Power lifters in the car and the noise completely went away!!!

Steve
 
I was just going to add... I spoke to more than a few guys who said the way to go is stock replacement because they have tighter tolerances. I havent taken any apart to check that but it might be an interesting read if you have one of each to look measure.
 
I've gotta say, I've only been in the Mopar world for a few months, and I have had some pretty bad luck with Mopar brand parts so far.

The lifters, the Mopar parts book having the wrong firing order, the F'ed up Mopar electronic Dizzy,

Best example I've got a pic of:

Notice anything wrong with this timing chain kit? LOL!

IMG_0327.jpg


I could go on...
 
Things used to be different with Mopar parts but for a few yrs. now they have been outsourcing to the cheapest bidder and we know what happens then. You get a timing kit with a top gear and 2 chains and all kinds of crap like that. Sorry to hear your experience with Mopar hasn't been a good one. For those of us who have been it for numerous yrs. it is a little different. At least we remember when parts were good and packaged correctly. I rarely but a Mopar perf. part anymore because of the problems with them. I have my trusted parts mfg. list I use because I haven't had any problems with them. I see you go by LXguy so I assume you were/are into Fords also. I'll give Ford credit. They've got their act together with perf. parts from what I've seen.
 
Hey BTW: did you ever notice a Mopar's firing order really is the same as the std. Ford order if you count the wires on a Ford the same as a Mopar? Check it out.
 
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