Suspension rebuild...adjustable strut rods??

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ACME SS

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Hey so I'm planning to replace all my front suspension bushings with probably a graphite impregnated urethane compound. I can't recall the company that I was looking at but they were also advertising their adjustable strut rods. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of caster adjustment than performance. Maybe I am over thinking this cause with the old worn out rubber bushings I didn't have enough adjustment in my eccentrics but I'm sure with new urethane that will probably fix all that. Your thoughts?
 
Moog has offset upper control arm bushings that allow a bit more caster adjustment. Part Number K7103.
The adjustable Strut Rods aren't so much for caster, but for providing a fixed forward/back so the lower arm doesn't move, but still allow up/down articulation. The rubber bushings on the factory style struts allow for a bit of fore/aft movement.
Added Edit: IMO, For a daily driver, cruiser, show car, or drag strip use, I wouldn't worry about the Strut Rods first unless you were beefing up the complete front end for autocrossing, track days, or corner carving. By then you would also be adding the better and probably adjustable Upper Control Arms as well.
 
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Adjustable strut rods are NOT for caster adjustment. If you need more caster adjustment, you should either get offset upper arm bushings, or aftermarket upper arms. The adjustment on the aftermarket strut rods are only to assure you get the lower arms in the correct position to avoid binding. Trying to adjust caster with strut rods will result in the lower arms binding in their travel.
 
Rusty is right, the strut rods are not there for caster adjustment and using them to adjust caster, instead of adjusting them properly, could create binding and other alignment issues.

Look, the strut rod is there because of the single pivot style of LCA. Because there's only one pivot the LCA has the tendency to flex forward/backward on the LCA bushings. The purpose of the strut rod (also called a "brake reaction rod) is to keep the LCA from flopping around too much under braking, acceleration, hard cornering, etc. The thing is that the strut rod and the LCA are at an angle to each other and have pivots that are at an angle to each other, so the end of the strut rod and the end of the LCA do not want to trace out the same arc as the suspension travels. So at the extreme ends of that arc you can get binding as the strut rod wants to pull on the LCA. So you have to keep in mind that the strut rods move in two different planes, fore/aft and up/down. You want them to not allow fore/aft movement of the LCA, but freely allow up/down movement.

The factory used large, soft, rubber strut rod bushings. The benefit to that is they flex a lot, so the length of the strut rod doesn't have to be perfect. Which is good if you have large factory tolerances like these cars do. So when the LCA moves up and down the strut rod follows and the strut rod bushing is compressed as the strut rod angles up or down. The rubber is soft so it compresses easily and you shouldn't have a ton of binding on the LCA. The down side is that large rubber strut rod bushing will also compress and extend a lot under braking and acceleration, which means that the strut rod isn't controlling the forward/backward motion of the LCA very well. That means when your braking, accelerating, or cornering your LCA is moving forward and backward, and that causes caster changes. Which is not what you want for accurate handling.

The adjustable strut rods use heim joints, so, they pivot up and down with no resistance at all, which is a huge improvement. And, under fore/aft movement of the LCA they can't compress or extend at all, also a huge improvement. The drawback is that they still travel in an arc that's not parallel to the LCA, and because there's no flex that means the length of the strut rod is critical so that you don't get binding within the range of travel of the LCA. Which is why on installation you need to adjust the length of the strut rod and cycle the suspension up and down and make adjustments until there's no binding in the suspension travel from bump stop to bump stop.

Poly strut rod bushings are kind of problematic. They reduce the fore/aft movement of the LCA, which is good, because of how stiff they are. So you get fewer caster changes. But the problem is they still work like a big cushion bushing when the strut rod travels up and down with the LCA, and because the poly is really hard the strut rod will resist the up/down movement of the LCA, which is NOT good. And because the poly strut rod bushings don't compress a ton, the length of the strut rod is a lot more important than it is with the big soft rubber factory bushing. Maybe not quite as critical as with an adjustable strut rod, but usually people use poly strut rod bushings on stock strut rods, which gives you no length adjustment at all. So now you've eliminated the give in the bushings but are still stuck with loose factory tolerances that can cause binding. So unless you tune the length of the strut rod or adjust the thickness of the poly strut rod bushing you may end up with a lot of binding, and either way you have more resistance to up/down travel.

If you're going to run poly LCA bushings, you should also run adjustable strut rods. Same reasoning, the factory LCA bushings are soft and allow for more slop (and looser tolerances). If you install poly bushings at the LCA you eliminate a lot of that slop, but now you have to account for the loose tolerances elsewhere (like at the strut rod). Poly bushings also work totally different than the rubber LCA bushings, the poly bushings rotate on the LCA pivot pins so the tolerance is different, and the LCA can slide on the pins. So the length of the strut rod is more critical with poly LCA bushings.

If it’s not a race car, don’t waste your money on the adjustable strut bars

Totally disagree.

I run adjustable strut rods on all of my cars, and they're all street cars. Having accurate steering and suspension changes is not just something a "race car" benefits from. When adjusted properly, adjustable strut rods make a huge difference in tightening up the handling and the accuracy of the suspension responses. With rubber strut rod bushings and factory strut rods your caster is constantly changing under load, which makes the handling feel sloppy and unpredictable.
 
I don't have them (yet) but the way I understand it is, when adjusted correctly, they completely free up the movement of the lower arm by replacing the bushings with the flexible joint. That's a win in anybody's book.
 
Rusty is right, the strut rods are not there for caster adjustment and using them to adjust caster, instead of adjusting them properly, could create binding and other alignment issues.

Look, the strut rod is there because of the single pivot style of LCA. Because there's only one pivot the LCA has the tendency to flex forward/backward on the LCA bushings. The purpose of the strut rod (also called a "brake reaction rod) is to keep the LCA from flopping around too much under braking, acceleration, hard cornering, etc. The thing is that the strut rod and the LCA are at an angle to each other and have pivots that are at an angle to each other, so the end of the strut rod and the end of the LCA do not want to trace out the same arc as the suspension travels. So at the extreme ends of that arc you can get binding as the strut rod wants to pull on the LCA. So you have to keep in mind that the strut rods move in two different planes, fore/aft and up/down. You want them to not allow fore/aft movement of the LCA, but freely allow up/down movement.

The factory used large, soft, rubber strut rod bushings. The benefit to that is they flex a lot, so the length of the strut rod doesn't have to be perfect. Which is good if you have large factory tolerances like these cars do. So when the LCA moves up and down the strut rod follows and the strut rod bushing is compressed as the strut rod angles up or down. The rubber is soft so it compresses easily and you shouldn't have a ton of binding on the LCA. The down side is that large rubber strut rod bushing will also compress and extend a lot under braking and acceleration, which means that the strut rod isn't controlling the forward/backward motion of the LCA very well. That means when your braking, accelerating, or cornering your LCA is moving forward and backward, and that causes caster changes. Which is not what you want for accurate handling.

The adjustable strut rods use heim joints, so, they pivot up and down with no resistance at all, which is a huge improvement. And, under fore/aft movement of the LCA they can't compress or extend at all, also a huge improvement. The drawback is that they still travel in an arc that's not parallel to the LCA, and because there's no flex that means the length of the strut rod is critical so that you don't get binding within the range of travel of the LCA. Which is why on installation you need to adjust the length of the strut rod and cycle the suspension up and down and make adjustments until there's no binding in the suspension travel from bump stop to bump stop.

Poly strut rod bushings are kind of problematic. They reduce the fore/aft movement of the LCA, which is good, because of how stiff they are. So you get fewer caster changes. But the problem is they still work like a big cushion bushing when the strut rod travels up and down with the LCA, and because the poly is really hard the strut rod will resist the up/down movement of the LCA, which is NOT good. And because the poly strut rod bushings don't compress a ton, the length of the strut rod is a lot more important than it is with the big soft rubber factory bushing. Maybe not quite as critical as with an adjustable strut rod, but usually people use poly strut rod bushings on stock strut rods, which gives you no length adjustment at all. So now you've eliminated the give in the bushings but are still stuck with loose factory tolerances that can cause binding. So unless you tune the length of the strut rod or adjust the thickness of the poly strut rod bushing you may end up with a lot of binding, and either way you have more resistance to up/down travel.

If you're going to run poly LCA bushings, you should also run adjustable strut rods. Same reasoning, the factory LCA bushings are soft and allow for more slop (and looser tolerances). If you install poly bushings at the LCA you eliminate a lot of that slop, but now you have to account for the loose tolerances elsewhere (like at the strut rod). Poly bushings also work totally different than the rubber LCA bushings, the poly bushings rotate on the LCA pivot pins so the tolerance is different, and the LCA can slide on the pins. So the length of the strut rod is more critical with poly LCA bushings.



Totally disagree.

I run adjustable strut rods on all of my cars, and they're all street cars. Having accurate steering and suspension changes is not just something a "race car" benefits from. When adjusted properly, adjustable strut rods make a huge difference in tightening up the handling and the accuracy of the suspension responses. With rubber strut rod bushings and factory strut rods your caster is constantly changing under load, which makes the handling feel sloppy and unpredictable.
When you get the jouncing and rebounding working smoothly using the adjustable strut rods, taking in consideration the factory tolerances, do you ever find any appreciable set-back?
 
When you get the jouncing and rebounding working smoothly using the adjustable strut rods, taking in consideration the factory tolerances, do you ever find any appreciable set-back?

So on my cars anyway what I've found is that the adjustable strut rods have ended up being a bit shorter than factory. Which would tend to make the caster more positive, which is usually what you want for radials.

But there's a lot more that goes into that, like all the cars I've run adjustable strut rods on are lowered close to 2", use poly or Delrin LCA bushings, FMJ spindles, tubular/adjustable UCA's, etc. Heck on my Duster I've completely changed the overall range of the suspension travel. I lowered the car about 2", then shortened the lower bump stops and raised the height of the upper bump stops so that the new ride height is still close to the middle of the range of travel. Which means the control arm angles at the ends of the range of travel are different from what they are from the factory.

Bottom line is that adjustable strut rods are used so you can adjust the length of the strut rod so that it matches the rest of your suspension geometry. Not so you can use the strut rod to adjust the geometry. The goal is to set the length so that there's no binding in the movement of the LCA, not to increase caster.
 
Adjustable strut rods are NOT for caster adjustment. If you need more caster adjustment, you should either get offset upper arm bushings, or aftermarket upper arms. The adjustment on the aftermarket strut rods are only to assure you get the lower arms in the correct position to avoid binding. Trying to adjust caster with strut rods will result in the lower arms binding in their travel.
Thats exactly what I though when I watched the video and again I don't recall the manufacture but yeah in order to get any caster out of it you would be putting undo stress on the control arm bushings. Thanks.
 
I would never build another car without them.
I'm savin up. The double adjustable ones are nice. You don't have to disconnect an end to adjust them. Just break two nuts loose. I plan on gettin the QA1 ones.
 
the only time your standard strut rod has an impact on castor its usually not a good imapct, and i think its due to the use of the wrong strut rod bushings
one combination of early and late parts puts too much bush between strut rod and rear of k frame
this means the strut rod sits a bit further back and pushes the lower arm back a bit
and makes it much harder to get any + castor.

i can't remeber properly what the diference is

but there seem to be 3 styles of struts
threaded end for use with a split pin: short thread to collar
threaded end for use with a split pin or nylock nut: long thread to collar
threaded end for use only with a nylock nut : long as above (no hole for split pin)

i thnk the position of the collar moved slightly to get more rubber in to reduce noise and vibration

short means some time in the 1960s
long appears to be late 60s onwards

both of the LONG can be used with multi part bushes that have a steel centre sleeve i.e moog upgraded version

i think the "short" can only be used with the 1 piece bush or an after thought/aftermarket multi part bush specified only for those models

I might be wrong... on which way round it all is, but there are subtle differences between different ages of A body strut rods and some combinations do not work as well togther, but they all bolt up if you have a big enough spanner.....

dave
 
the only time your standard strut rod has an impact on castor its usually not a good imapct, and i think its due to the use of the wrong strut rod bushings
one combination of early and late parts puts too much bush between strut rod and rear of k frame
this means the strut rod sits a bit further back and pushes the lower arm back a bit
and makes it much harder to get any + castor.

i can't remeber properly what the diference is

but there seem to be 3 styles of struts
threaded end for use with a split pin: short thread to collar
threaded end for use with a split pin or nylock nut: long thread to collar
threaded end for use only with a nylock nut : long as above (no hole for split pin)

i thnk the position of the collar moved slightly to get more rubber in to reduce noise and vibration

short means some time in the 1960s
long appears to be late 60s onwards

both of the LONG can be used with multi part bushes that have a steel centre sleeve i.e moog upgraded version

i think the "short" can only be used with the 1 piece bush or an after thought/aftermarket multi part bush specified only for those models

I might be wrong... on which way round it all is, but there are subtle differences between different ages of A body strut rods and some combinations do not work as well togther, but they all bolt up if you have a big enough spanner.....

dave
Yeah, @Oldmanmopar has shown in depth the differences before. There are a couple of different types of bushings and coarse and fine thread strut rods. Don't ask me which is which, cause heck if I know. LOL
 
Just to stir the pot. How much movement does the LCA have where the strut rod connects? And how much movement does this create at the K frame where the strut connects? The deflection will be the same with an adjustable or stock strut bar. Just sayin…
 
Just to stir the pot. How much movement does the LCA have where the strut rod connects? And how much movement does this create at the K frame where the strut connects? The deflection will be the same with an adjustable or stock strut bar. Just sayin…

No it won’t. The ASR has a heim joint on the K member end and the OE SR has rubber. Or Poly. That **** moves. A lot.
 
Just to stir the pot. How much movement does the LCA have where the strut rod connects? And how much movement does this create at the K frame where the strut connects? The deflection will be the same with an adjustable or stock strut bar. Just sayin…

The factory rubber strut rod bushings are about a 1/2” thick. Under hard braking the LCA can almost completely collapse the rear strut rod bushing with its forward movement. So I’d say the LCA is capable of flexing forward a good 1/4”. That kind of forward movement isn’t possible with an adjustable strut rod, there’s nothing to compress to allow that kind of movement.

Here’s a clip of a video another member posted awhile back. Just watch the front of the strut rod when the wheel turns and the car comes to a stop. This is basic everyday driving, no hard stop, no hard corner.

✂️ Strut rod deflection
 
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The factory rubber strut rod bushings are about a 1/2” thick. Under hard braking the LCA can almost completely collapse the rear strut rod bushing with its forward movement. So I’d say the LCA is capable of flexing forward a good 1/4”. That kind of forward movement isn’t possible with an adjustable strut rod, there’s nothing to compress to allow that kind of movement.

Here’s a clip of a video another member posted awhile back. Just watch the front of the strut rod when the wheel turns and the car comes to a stop. This is basic everyday driving, no hard stop, no hard corner.

✂️ Strut rod deflection

Great video. And that was driving normal. Go out and lean on it and see what those bushings do.
 
To me, it's not necessarily about the deflection, it's about freeing up how the strut rod moves. With bushings, the LCA doesn't move nearly as freely as with the joint at the front with adjustable strut rods. Losing deflection is nice too, though.
 
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