Tall gears and 4-speeds

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Jarlaxle

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Car is a 73 Duster, mild Magnum 360, 833 trans with V8 gears, I think 26" tires. (225/60R15) Currently has 8.25" with 3.55 gears, and...yeah, that's getting old. Does anyone have actual EXPERIENCE with a 4 speed and 2.76 axle gears in a ~3300lb car? How does it drive?
 
no experience but why not switch to a taller diameter rear tire?
I ran my 340 with 3.23 gears and 27" diameter tires and even that would drone after a while on the highway...no interior to dampen noise
 
2.76 will get old before you finish the first test drive. Bog taking off, ride the clutch, forget driving it in cool weather and a cold engine.
 
I run a commando box (3.09 first gear) with 2.76 rear behind a mild 318 and it’s pretty good. Actually recently swapped them for 3.73s when gas started to skyrocket as I drive the car 90 miles a day if the sun is shining and actually prefer them over the 3.73s. First gear was super short and pointless, but they sure were a lot more fun.
 
3.09 first gear will change everything.

@Jarlaxle what is the first gear ratio of your 4 speed?
 
I have driven all gear ratio's. Which do you prefer for our car, gas mileage, low RPM freeway cruising- then select the 2.76. If you favor drag racing or stop light o stop light performance, choose 3.90 or better. If you're somewhere in between, then 3.55 or better with 15" tires.
 
Have a friend who had a 72 340 Duster 4sp, who changed the stock gear (I think?! it was a 3.55) for a 2.76. He said it was miserable, swapped in a 727 with a tight converter so he could live with it.
A 3.09 first gear would have helped a lot.
 
Car is a 73 Duster, mild Magnum 360, 833 trans with V8 gears, I think 26" tires. (225/60R15) Currently has 8.25" with 3.55 gears, and...yeah, that's getting old. Does anyone have actual EXPERIENCE with a 4 speed and 2.76 axle gears in a ~3300lb car? How does it drive?
How does it drive?
Can you be more specific?
with your combo; 65= 2300 rpm which cruises fatastic
But the starter gear of 2.66 x 2.76= 7.34, requires a pretty stout bottom-end. It will require a good bit of slippage to take off briskly. I solved that by installing alloy heads and running the cylinder pressure up to 180 or better. My 360LA then had plenty of bottom-end punch.
You can get a leg up on it by installing the Commando Gear-set which has a 3.09 low. This would make your starter gear, 2.76 x 3.09=8.44, about the same as 3.23 x 2.66=8.59. The 5.9 IIRC comes with an Scr of 9.0 or 9.2 I forget which, but the end result is the same; a mild cam won't kill the bottom end.

But as someone said; your Duster with 3.55s, and 28" tires would cruise at ~65= 2770 compared to the current 2980 with 26s.

but here's the thing; Second gear is 1.92 and with 2.76s, that will get you 44mph at 3000/ 60@4100, compared to your current combo doing 34@3000/ 60=5300, so you can expect your zero to 60 ET to be down a bit. Maybe quite a bit, lol.
I didn't run those gears for long because of that very reason. Eventually I bought a GVod, and now 65=2240 with 3.55s ............

Perhaps, for you, the A833od might be a good solution. With your current 3.55s and 2.76s; it will give you 65=2180, with a starter of 3.09 x 3.55=10.97/same as I run . But Second is a lil far away in it.
here are the ratios; first yours
2.66-1.92-1.40-1.00, next the Commando
3.09-1.92-1.40-1.00, then the overdrive
3.09-1.67-1.00-.73od
Road gears next; first yours with the 3.55s
9.44-6.82-4.97-3.55, (65=2980); followed by what they would be with 2.76s
7.34-5.30-3.86-2.76, (65=2320); then the overdrive with 3.55s
10.97-5.93-3.55-2.59od (65=2180); And then the Commando with 3.55s to 3.23s, then 2.94s
10.97-6.82-4.97-3.55, (65=2980)
9.98-6.20-4.52-3.23, (65=2700)
9.08-5.64-4.12-2.94, (65=2470)


IMO,
and for a 360/5.9 street car;
Second gear ratios in the hi 6s are pretty good
Second gears in the low 5s are pretty tame.
Second gears from about 5.5 to 6.5 are a good compromise to get a decent cruising gear.
BTW;
those overdrive transmissions can be had pretty affordably. But they do require a fairly wide powerband, which the modest compression 5.9 Magnum should have. IMO I would certainly try one before I would go to 2.76s.
 
How does it drive?

Loudly. :( Engine seems perfectly happy to do it, but it's loud, it burns a lot of gas, and it cannot be good for engine longevity.

Can you be more specific?

About what? I'm not following you.

with your combo; 65= 2300 rpm which cruises fantastic

70MPH actual (on GPS-speedo is considerably off) is 3000RPM. Usual highway speeds in this area are 70-75MPH.

But the starter gear of 2.66 x 2.76= 7.34, requires a pretty stout bottom-end. It will require a good bit of slippage to take off briskly. I solved that by installing alloy heads and running the cylinder pressure up to 180 or better. My 360LA then had plenty of bottom-end punch.

You can get a leg up on it by installing the Commando Gear-set which has a 3.09 low. This would make your starter gear, 2.76 x 3.09=8.44, about the same as 3.23 x 2.66=8.59. The 5.9 IIRC comes with an Scr of 9.0 or 9.2 I forget which, but the end result is the same; a mild cam won't kill the bottom end.

I have driven tall-geared cars, including a Volare with what I think was 2.94 or 2.76 and 4-speed. Yes, I know that was a 3.09 low 833OD, but it was also a heavier car than my zero-option Duster, with a slant six. FWIW, the engine willingly pulls from 1000RPM even in 4th gear. Cam is a Hughes SER1418ALN10.

But as someone said; your Duster with 3.55s, and 28" tires would cruise at ~65= 2770 compared to the current 2980 with 26s.

but here's the thing; Second gear is 1.92 and with 2.76s, that will get you 44mph at 3000/ 60@4100, compared to your current combo doing 34@3000/ 60=5300, so you can expect your zero to 60 ET to be down a bit. Maybe quite a bit, lol.
I didn't run those gears for long because of that very reason. Eventually I bought a GVod, and now 65=2240 with 3.55s ............

Perhaps, for you, the A833od might be a good solution. With your current 3.55s and 2.76s; it will give you 65=2180, with a starter of 3.09 x 3.55=10.97/same as I run . But Second is a lil far away in it.
here are the ratios; first yours
2.66-1.92-1.40-1.00, next the Commando
3.09-1.92-1.40-1.00, then the overdrive
3.09-1.67-1.00-.73od
Road gears next; first yours with the 3.55s
9.44-6.82-4.97-3.55, (65=2980); followed by what they would be with 2.76s
7.34-5.30-3.86-2.76, (65=2320); then the overdrive with 3.55s
10.97-5.93-3.55-2.59od (65=2180); And then the Commando with 3.55s to 3.23s, then 2.94s
10.97-6.82-4.97-3.55, (65=2980)
9.98-6.20-4.52-3.23, (65=2700)
9.08-5.64-4.12-2.94, (65=2470)


IMO,
and for a 360/5.9 street car;
Second gear ratios in the hi 6s are pretty good
Second gears in the low 5s are pretty tame.
Second gears from about 5.5 to 6.5 are a good compromise to get a decent cruising gear.
BTW;
those overdrive transmissions can be had pretty affordably. But they do require a fairly wide powerband, which the modest compression 5.9 Magnum should have. IMO I would certainly try one before I would go to 2.76s.

The OD is an option...but that's a much bigger cost than a gear swap. (Especially since I think I found a set of 2.71 gears for $100.) Also a consideration: the trans in it is a fresh (<5K mile) rebuild from Brewer.
 
Stock cam on the 360 magnum it should pull the 2.76 gears fine, with it's low end torque. 1800 rpm @ 70 mph.

If the 360 magnum has a performance cam pushing the power band up the scale like 2500 to 6000 then it will bog at the lower rpms.
 
I recently bought a duster (3300ish) has a mild 318, 833, 2.76, and 26” tires. It drives pretty nice, about 1800@55mph, great if nice is what your looking for. It will move pretty good if you get the r’s up, but just doesn’t have what you expect out of a 70’s muscle car, I’m definitely going 3.55 or 3.91
 
How does it drive?
Can you be more specific?
About what? I'm not following you.

Can you be more specific as to how does it drive; as in What area?
are you asking about cruising? or
about the loss of performance with the 2.76s? or
loss of passing power? or
the loss of the use of your Second gear powerband? or
As in; what exactly are you trying to achieve with the switch?


70MPH actual (on GPS-speedo is considerably off) is 3000RPM. Usual highway speeds in this area are 70-75MPH.
>The math comes to 2980rpm
>"with your combo; 65= 2300 rpm which cruises fatastic"
.......
Edit; with your contemplated combo, the 2.76s
As in; with your engine/trans/tire combo the new 2.76 gears will cruise fantastic, ; a direct answer to your question of; How will it drive?



The OD is an option...but that's a much bigger cost than a gear swap.
I buy the ODs at swap meets for ~$50 to $150, and my record for taking one down is 17 minutes. And that includes dropping the dual 3" TTIs, the stick, and the GVod.
How long will it take to swap your gears? and can you do it yourself?


I have driven tall-geared cars, including a Volare with what I think was 2.94 or 2.76 and 4-speed. Yes, I know that was a 3.09 low 833OD, but it was also a heavier car than my zero-option Duster, with a slant six.
IDK man; I have had both cars, and I wouldn't say that the Duster/360 is much lighter than the Volare/225; both with 4-speeds, both similarly optioned. I mean yur looking at less than 10% difference; probably less than 5%.

nice cam BTW
 
@AJ/FormS gold job with the calculator that’s what needs to be done.

2.76 is too far the wrong way. Must think about torque multiplication, not cruising RPM.
 
The od aluminum trans with the 3.09 first gear drops to 1.66 or so, so... If you have 3.91 gears out back, You may be going to second before 60 ft mark and you rpm will drop significantly and take you too far away from the torque peak.
Cruising, gas mileage...go for it
 
To be as specifically simple as I can, it takes off from a stop fine with the mild cam 318. It goes through the gears just fine, and cruises nice. At 55 60 you have no problem grabbing 3rd and passing, for a daily driver it’s a nice set up,
It’s got a 8 3/4 sure grip, and definitely not burning the tires off, granted it’s only a slightly more than stock 318, it doesn’t pull you into the seat, but will pick up speed pretty good if your shifting around the 5,000 range.
Might be just what your looking for, and if that’s the easy button for you, probly worth a try
 
Stock cam on the 360 magnum it should pull the 2.76 gears fine, with it's low end torque. 1800 rpm @ 70 mph.

If the 360 magnum has a performance cam pushing the power band up the scale like 2500 to 6000 then it will bog at the lower rpms.

Per Hughes, the cam I have is fine with a stock converter and "stock to 3.55" gears.

I recently bought a duster (3300ish) has a mild 318, 833, 2.76, and 26” tires. It drives pretty nice, about 1800@55mph, great if nice is what your looking for. It will move pretty good if you get the r’s up, but just doesn’t have what you expect out of a 70’s muscle car, I’m definitely going 3.55 or 3.91

That's pretty much what I want. With a 360, I'll have more low-end than a 318.

How does it drive?
Can you be more specific?


Can you be more specific as to how does it drive; as in What area?
are you asking about cruising? or
about the loss of performance with the 2.76s? or
loss of passing power? or
the loss of the use of your Second gear powerband? or
As in; what exactly are you trying to achieve with the switch?

I am trying to achieve lower highway cruising RPMs for a daily driver.

>The math comes to 2980rpm
>"with your combo; 65= 2300 rpm which cruises fatastic"
.......
Edit; with your contemplated combo, the 2.76s
As in; with your engine/trans/tire combo the new 2.76 gears will cruise fantastic, ; a direct answer to your question of; How will it drive?




I buy the ODs at swap meets for ~$50 to $150, and my record for taking one down is 17 minutes. And that includes dropping the dual 3" TTIs, the stick, and the GVod.
How long will it take to swap your gears? and can you do it yourself?

No, but I know people who can. I can't swap a trans, either.

IDK man; I have had both cars, and I wouldn't say that the Duster/360 is much lighter than the Volare/225; both with 4-speeds, both similarly optioned. I mean yur looking at less than 10% difference; probably less than 5%.

nice cam BTW

Not similarly optioned. The Volare had power brakes, power steering, A/C, and vinyl top. My Duster doesn't even have a power washer pump.
 
To be as specifically simple as I can, it takes off from a stop fine with the mild cam 318. It goes through the gears just fine, and cruises nice. At 55 60 you have no problem grabbing 3rd and passing, for a daily driver it’s a nice set up,
It’s got a 8 3/4 sure grip, and definitely not burning the tires off, granted it’s only a slightly more than stock 318, it doesn’t pull you into the seat, but will pick up speed pretty good if your shifting around the 5,000 range.
Might be just what your looking for, and if that’s the easy button for you, probly worth a try

That sounds like what I'm looking for. I'd love a TKO or T56, but my wallet says no.
 
I'll let you know next year :lol:

This cam/springs 2.66 A833 with 3.23's
p1060358-jpg-jpg.jpg

HUG 1199

MAGNUM SPRING UPGRADE KIT

INC SPRINGS, RETAINERS & LOCKS TO GIVE .620" COIL BIND W/ NO MACHINING
 
That's a LITTLE more cam than mine (about 6 degrees on both), but very close. What's it going in?
 
I really love the rabbit hole these threads go down. So much information and knowledge in one place calculator and cam charts are great. I’m not sure if this would be better off on a different thread or not, but what about tire size, going from a 26 inch to a 27 or 28 on the 3.55s would it really make all that much difference or not
 
Looks like there are a couple parts missing...:steering:
I don't know. It looks like the harder to find stuff is all there- solid body and sheet metal! :D
The black paint along the bottom edge would make me worry about some rust being hidden but I'm sure @skep419 is well aware of any issues there.
 
I run an 833, 3.55's with 28" tall tires & run 60@2600, 70@3000. I'm switching to a TKX with .81 OD gear. The .68 and .72 OD I felt would have dropped my overall gear ratio too low. I will cruise 60@2053, 70@2400.
 
I run an 833, 3.55's with 28" tall tires & run 60@2600, 70@3000. I'm switching to a TKX with .81 OD gear. The .68 and .72 OD I felt would have dropped my overall gear ratio too low. I will cruise 60@2053, 70@2400.
Unfortunately, my wallet says no TKX at the moment. The .72 and 3.55 (2.56 final drive) would probably work very well.
 
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