The foundation for a 5.7 Swap

[hemidup]

So was it a Megasquirt issue? Were they running megasquirt 3x? Should I be concerned?

At the time only Megasquirt 2 was allowed for Stock Eliminator. Wertman's were running the 3 and wanted to borrow my NHRA approved AEM in case of a tear down. I declined. The biggest issue the team was having was melting down coil packs with both the Megasquirt and Bigstuff3.

The Wertman team purchased and personally picked up a block from me after tearing up 3 engines. Their first 6.1 blown engine was at Megasquirt's dyno session. Had nothing to do with Megasquirt tuning, just the way their oringinal engine was built. I was on the phone with Chris Wertman at the time and told him not to take the engine up to 8000 rpm. I told him to run back in and tell them to quit it, but it was too late. Their 2nd 6.1 was lost in the water box. Their 3rd engine, a 5.7 ate up a couple exhaust valves. Their 4th engine, a 5.7, runs like a champ. If I where a tuner I would expect an engine builder to make it live. If I where an engine builder I know that a tuner will take it to the edge. Since we build and tune our own EFI Hemi engines, life is good.

Love the AEM fully programable Mopar Performance piece. Tune the motor on the engine dyno, install that same box married to that engine and life is good. Can also figure out what converter and gears would work best. Wasted too much time and $$$ on chassis dyno's prior to tuning on the engine dyno.

 

[hemidup]

So was it a Megasquirt issue? Were they running megasquirt 3x? Should I be concerned?

Chris told me he was using Megasquirt 3 inside a 2 box. Really don't know for sure and I haven't looked to see it the 3 has been approved by NHRA as of yet. Thus the reason he wanted to borrow our NHRA approved AEM in 2010. I would just stick with whats been proven and works.

Jeff Taylor has been very successful with both Bigstuff3 and FAST. We prefer tuning with AEM or FAST.

 

[turbofreek]

So was it a Megasquirt issue? Were they running megasquirt 3x? Should I be concerned?

No, cuz guys like that have more money then sense. They broke 4 motors with all different systems. It was a user error I'm sure, not an efi issue. Ms is proven over and over again to be reliable. They only upgraded and enhanced its base design for better quality and performance, and options.

 

[Joe Dokes]

Uhcoog1,

Disassembly instructions for your throttle body. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!

1. Remove the throttle body from the motor. DUH, I teach high school so I typically state the obvious.
2. Pry off the metal band, covering the throttle bodies gear and motor assembly. If you do it carefully you may be able to replace it if you ever want to reassemble a working Drive by wire
3. Remove the two screws holding the throttle plate in place.
4. Manually open the throttle plate and slide out the throttle plate.
5. Locate a pin that holds the throttle shaft in place. Mine was located between the housing that holds the gear and motor assembly and the outside of the throttle bore. The pin is about 1/16" across and about 1/2" in length.
6. Using a TINY drift punch drive the pin out of the housing, there are holes on both ends that allows the pin to be driven all the way through.
7. Once the pins are out you should be able to slide out the throttle shaft with the gears still attached.
8. This will allow you to remove the other idler gears and gain access to the two small screws that hold motor assembly in place.
9. Congratulations, you've either completely disassembled the throttle body or destroyed it.

Nissan throttle body, I hadn't done any research on it, but it is disappointing to see them advertised as 90mm when they are only 75mm. :wack:

If you do a search for ls throttle bodies on ebay, you'll see a bunch of 80 to 90 mm chevy throttle bodies for a lot less than the FAST units.

Also there is a guy on ebay that is selling Ford (I know a four letter word ) throttle bodies adapted for the hemi. The only issue for megasquirt is that it will work with ford IAC systems but I think it comes pre set up for Chevy. Anyhow you can see his stuff here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-7-...rQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_1182

Megasquirt Wiring Harness:

I was going to use DB-37 with solder cups. The Male and Female DB-37 connectors with solder cups on the end allow you simply solder your wires into the cups. Otherwise you need a dedicated DB pin crimper which are pricey, that and the DB pins really aren't designed for wires large than 20 gauge and I think the factory Dodge harness uses. You can see a solder cup DB37 here: http://www.computercablestore.com/DB37_Connector_Solder_Fem_PID107.aspx

I like the idea of using some type of bulk head connector, the only downside of course is price both for the connector and the crimper. GM makes a 22 place connector, so you'd need two. They sell both at DIY and there prices are pretty good, I've looked around and can't find it significantly cheaper. Here is the page:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/weather-pack-22-position-bulkhead-connector-kit-p-364.html

03Ramit

The coil drivers are bosch units that drive up to 4 coils they are bosch units P/N 0-227-100-211

http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/aut..._system/ignition_control_unit.html?3593=52032

You can find them used for about 50 bucks, but new they run over 100, if you you can find them cheaper, let me know. The cheapest I've found the is at rock auto for $114.00

Hemiup,

Since you seem to have a lot of experience building race hemi's. Were there problems due to being inexperienced, chose the wrong engine builder, or too aggressive on the tune, not being methodical, or all of the above.

I knew that you could over-heat a coil with too much dwell, but I didn't know you could cause them to self destruct. Are the Hemi Coils prone to failure?

My hemi is going to be virtually stock, I only plan to add a cam and headers and a slightly larger throttle body. Are there any specific issues with the hemi particularly the fuel injection that presents problems for hot rodders?

Regards,

Joe Dokes

 

[Uhcoog1]

Uhcoog1,

Disassembly instructions for your throttle body. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!

1. Remove the throttle body from the motor. DUH, I teach high school so I typically state the obvious.
2. Pry off the metal band, covering the throttle bodies gear and motor assembly. If you do it carefully you may be able to replace it if you ever want to reassemble a working Drive by wire
3. Remove the two screws holding the throttle plate in place.
4. Manually open the throttle plate and slide out the throttle plate.
5. Locate a pin that holds the throttle shaft in place. Mine was located between the housing that holds the gear and motor assembly and the outside of the throttle bore. The pin is about 1/16" across and about 1/2" in length.
6. Using a TINY drift punch drive the pin out of the housing, there are holes on both ends that allows the pin to be driven all the way through.
7. Once the pins are out you should be able to slide out the throttle shaft with the gears still attached.
8. This will allow you to remove the other idler gears and gain access to the two small screws that hold motor assembly in place.
9. Congratulations, you've either completely disassembled the throttle body or destroyed it.

Nissan throttle body, I hadn't done any research on it, but it is disappointing to see them advertised as 90mm when they are only 75mm. :wack:

If you do a search for ls throttle bodies on ebay, you'll see a bunch of 80 to 90 mm chevy throttle bodies for a lot less than the FAST units.

Also there is a guy on ebay that is selling Ford (I know a four letter word ) throttle bodies adapted for the hemi. The only issue for megasquirt is that it will work with ford IAC systems but I think it comes pre set up for Chevy. Anyhow you can see his stuff here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-7-...rQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_1182

Well, I picked up an LSx ('05 5.3) throttle body today with sensors for $30, so I'm probably going to try to make that work. It's 75mm and a 3 screw. Did you make your adapter plate out of a throttle body spacer of some sort? Or? I'm guessing I need one just like yours.

Uhcoog1,
Megasquirt Wiring Harness:

I was going to use DB-37 with solder cups. The Male and Female DB-37 connectors with solder cups on the end allow you simply solder your wires into the cups. Otherwise you need a dedicated DB pin crimper which are pricey, that and the DB pins really aren't designed for wires large than 20 gauge and I think the factory Dodge harness uses. You can see a solder cup DB37 here: http://www.computercablestore.com/DB37_Connector_Solder_Fem_PID107.aspx

I like the idea of using some type of bulk head connector, the only downside of course is price both for the connector and the crimper. GM makes a 22 place connector, so you'd need two. They sell both at DIY and there prices are pretty good, I've looked around and can't find it significantly cheaper. Here is the page:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/weather-pack-22-position-bulkhead-connector-kit-p-364.html

They actually sent me a bare connector- it looks just like the one you sent (solder connector) with hood.

Are you going to use a bulkhead connector? I think I'd rather skip it, and use some sort of grommet through the original bulkhead hole. Anyone know a good place to get various size grommets?

Uhcoog1,

03Ramit

The coil drivers are bosch units that drive up to 4 coils they are bosch units P/N 0-227-100-211

http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/parts/2002/volkswagen/passat/ignition_system/ignition_control_unit.html?3593=52032

You can find them used for about 50 bucks, but new they run over 100, if you you can find them cheaper, let me know. The cheapest I've found the is at rock auto for $114.00

I tried finding some in a few junkyards today. Didn't find a thing! The main reason I wanted to find em in a junkyard was to take the plugs as well. No dice! The non pick-a-parts said there was No Way they would let me take the plugs, because it was part of the harness. Total bummer. I'll search the MS forums for places to find em.

Have you purchased a board for the BIP373's? I'd love to look at that option given my junkyard endeavor failed!

 

[hemidup]

Uhcoog1,


Hemiup,

Since you seem to have a lot of experience building race hemi's. Were there problems due to being inexperienced, chose the wrong engine builder, or too aggressive on the tune, not being methodical, or all of the above.

I knew that you could over-heat a coil with too much dwell, but I didn't know you could cause them to self destruct. Are the Hemi Coils prone to failure?

My hemi is going to be virtually stock, I only plan to add a cam and headers and a slightly larger throttle body. Are there any specific issues with the hemi particularly the fuel injection that presents problems for hot rodders?

Regards,

Joe Dokes

Joe, probably all the above.

Hemi coils are not prone to failure. However at 950 hp with high cylinder pressures you'll need a CDI to keep the spark from blowing out.

No problem with EFI in a stock application. You can actually use the factory pcm with a cam as long as you keep the lsa at 116 or wider. If you want the lumpy sound of a 110 or 112 the factory pcm can't handle the low vaccumm map reading so you'll need to go with a piggy back or standalone to keep the engine idling in closed loop.

I've invested thousands of dollars into EFI tuning these new EFI Hemi's over the past 5 years. Jet, Hypertech, SCT, SCT Pro race package, Superchips, Unichip, Split Second, iEMS3, SMT6, PSC, AEM..etc,etc. Thats why I'm a big fan of using the MSD Hemi6L with a carb. Its a no brainer.

Jerry

 

[03ramit1]

anyome know a car that has the bosch drivers in it that is newer than an 02? And I wll see if I can score a handful of them. I have access to a salvage yard but without knowing the year make and model I cannot locate parts. The yard isprivate and I do not have access to roam about. Searching for them myself is next to impossable.

 

[Uhcoog1]

Here's the info on the Bosch 211. This is it as far as I know.

http://www.microsquirt.info/Bosch_211.htm