1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
I'm not a 100% die hard Union supporter but many of the Union bashers here don't know the first thing about Unions.
The "NEW" GM
- Thread starter CUUDAK
- Start date
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I'm not a 100% die hard Union supporter but many of the Union bashers here don't know the first thing about Unions.
Old Man Mopar
Righteous Dude
You really don't understand do you?
In a non-union job in that pay range the employee takes it upon themself
to take on responsibility and accountability, to have an outstanding attendance
record, to properly groom themselves and adopt an acceptable dress code. They
don't need a written rule to act properly.
Your "only if enforced by the employer" explanations just go to prove my point.
So, I guess anything goes unless someone is forcing you to do otherwise.
In a non-union job in that pay range the employee takes it upon themself
to take on responsibility and accountability, to have an outstanding attendance
record, to properly groom themselves and adopt an acceptable dress code. They
don't need a written rule to act properly.
Your "only if enforced by the employer" explanations just go to prove my point.
So, I guess anything goes unless someone is forcing you to do otherwise.
Frankie
Member #9641
The union problems that GM, and Chrysler suffer from is more of a legacy problem than anything else. When times were good at the American car companies, the companies and the unions made some bad decisions.
supervision was lax, work habits went south, quality hit the floor (late 70's to early 90's quality in American cars and trucks just plain sucked).
Along came the Japanese and started to kick *** in the auto market. Not so much that they had a good product, but that they offered a product that didn't suffer from the quality control issues the American cars had, and at a time when America was becoming MPG aware, the Americans offered next to nothing to compete with the fuel efficient imports.
Playing catch up hurt us, and when the companies decided to get more efficient, the unions acted up. Past practice was the catch phrase of the day. When GM decided to crack down on productivity (which was in the basement) the unions pushed back. Since up until that point GM made money in spite of it's poor quality and production practices, and it's lavish pay schedule and labor compensation packages, the unions didn't want things changing.
I remember chatting with a number of UAW workers back then, too. The seemed to full understand the situation, the knew what needed to be done, and they even knew what the consequences could be. However, the union hierarchy was a little slow on the up take, and also was getting used to the fact dues collections of the over staffed assembly lines.
Employees working 5-6 hours a day and getting paid for 8-10 hours a day, paved the road for additional laborers to make up the work load. Again, another 4-5 hour work day, with 8-10 hours of pay. Union dues were on the incline, quality was on the decline. Over staffing, under producing, legacy costs, extensive benefit and compensation packages were driving customers to the imports, while costs at GM were skyrocketing.
Even the GM employees themselves were buying imports. Price, quality, MPG's and customer satisfaction were all much better than the GM product, and that was the fault of poor management decisions, lazy and spoiled labor, greedy union representatives, and poor quality products with ever increasing unit costs.
supervision was lax, work habits went south, quality hit the floor (late 70's to early 90's quality in American cars and trucks just plain sucked).
Along came the Japanese and started to kick *** in the auto market. Not so much that they had a good product, but that they offered a product that didn't suffer from the quality control issues the American cars had, and at a time when America was becoming MPG aware, the Americans offered next to nothing to compete with the fuel efficient imports.
Playing catch up hurt us, and when the companies decided to get more efficient, the unions acted up. Past practice was the catch phrase of the day. When GM decided to crack down on productivity (which was in the basement) the unions pushed back. Since up until that point GM made money in spite of it's poor quality and production practices, and it's lavish pay schedule and labor compensation packages, the unions didn't want things changing.
I remember chatting with a number of UAW workers back then, too. The seemed to full understand the situation, the knew what needed to be done, and they even knew what the consequences could be. However, the union hierarchy was a little slow on the up take, and also was getting used to the fact dues collections of the over staffed assembly lines.
Employees working 5-6 hours a day and getting paid for 8-10 hours a day, paved the road for additional laborers to make up the work load. Again, another 4-5 hour work day, with 8-10 hours of pay. Union dues were on the incline, quality was on the decline. Over staffing, under producing, legacy costs, extensive benefit and compensation packages were driving customers to the imports, while costs at GM were skyrocketing.
Even the GM employees themselves were buying imports. Price, quality, MPG's and customer satisfaction were all much better than the GM product, and that was the fault of poor management decisions, lazy and spoiled labor, greedy union representatives, and poor quality products with ever increasing unit costs.
66plyValiant
Well-Known Member
japanese cars= quality built
chinese anything= junk!
chinese anything= junk!
Old Man Mopar
Righteous Dude
I would say that the quality of a current GM product is at least as good as
Honda/Toyota et al. It is because of the Japanese influence of 25 years ago
that we all enjoy (and expect) a superior product from all manufacturers today.
Honda/Toyota et al. It is because of the Japanese influence of 25 years ago
that we all enjoy (and expect) a superior product from all manufacturers today.
Frankie
Member #9641
I agree. The quality of American made vehicles has jumped by leaps and bounds, and you're right, the improvement was due to the quality of the imports.
crossram383
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2009
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So far this is a great thread with many good and varied points of view....though I believe it's destined for the News and Politics forum !
Frankie
Member #9641
Oh god.. There goes the neighborhood. :banghead: I mean, Hey crossram ! Where ya been hidin'! lol
72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
Another problem effecting a huge amount of people in this country is Obamas war on coal. Economics 101 if you don't employ enough people in this country with jobs to implant money in an econmy eventually there won't be a need for YOU either.
Frankie
Member #9641
Found this in today's news regarding American car reliability. Mostly pertains to Ford, but, you get the picture... - Frankie
It's "consumer Reports", but, let's try to stay on topic, and not start bashing the magazine. It's not about the magazine. OK?
Link: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ings/reliability-findings.htm?EXTKEY=AYAHFP05
New-car reliability
Ford’s problems show the risks of buying a first-year model
Last reviewed: April 2012
Reliability ratings chart
Research Reliability Ratings for 2011 models by category (available to subscribers). Learn more about reliability and owner satisfaction.
In recent years, Ford has been a model of American reliability. The brand ranked 10th in our predicted reliability ranking last year and competed well with Japanese makes. This year, however, the Ford brand has slipped 10 spots, to 20th out of 28 makes. That was the biggest drop for any major nameplate, according to our 2011 Annual Auto Survey, which is based on subscribers' experiences with 1.3 million vehicles.
What changed? Three new or redesigned models-the Explorer, Fiesta, and Focus-had below-average reliability in their first year. We have often found that new or revamped models have more problems in their first year than in subsequent model years. Ford's problems underscore our advice to hold off buying a new car in its first year.
Other highlights from our survey:
As Ford's star has fallen, Chrysler's has risen. Jeep has moved up seven spots to become the most reliable domestic brand, and all its models for which we have sufficient data scored average in predicted reliability. Chrysler and Dodge moved up 12 and three spots in ranking, respectively.
Japanese brands dominate our survey's upper echelons and took the top nine spots. They were led by Scion, Lexus, Acura, Mazda, Honda, and Toyota.
Jaguar, Porsche, and Audi are at the bottom among brands for which we have sufficient data.
Many hybrids are proving extremely reliable. The top two models in our survey are the Lexus CT 200h and Honda CR-Z. The Toyota Prius was among the top models, rebounding from brake problems that plagued the current design.
Family sedans hold up well overall and are led by the Ford Fusion Hybrid. All of the models for which we have data have at least average reliability. In contrast, only one minivan makes that cut: The front wheel-drive Toyota Sienna is average.
Heavy-duty, three-quarter-ton pickups are among the most problematic vehicles. With the exception of the turbodiesel Ford F-250, they all scored below average.
Fortunes change for Big Three
Ford F-150 EcoBoost
Newly recommended: Ford F-150 EcoBoost
Even with Chrysler's improvement, Detroit models still have reliability problems. Of the 97 domestic models and versions for which we have sufficient data, 62 (64 percent) rated average or better in our new-car reliability ratings.
General Motors has stumbled after edging up last year. The Buick and Cadillac brands, in particular, appear to have taken a step backward; Chevrolet held steady and GMC dropped one spot. The new Buick Regal and Chevrolet Cruze did well in our road tests but were below par in reliability. The Buick La-Crosse, an all-wheel-drive version of the Buick Enclave, and the Cadillac SRX were all deemed reliable last year but dropped to below average and are no longer recommended. General Motors' bright spots include the above-average Chevrolet Avalanche and the Cadillac CTS, which has improved to average.
The gas/electric Chevrolet Volt, with much better than average predicted reliability, ranks as GM's most reliable car but with a caveat: The sample size was just a little more than our minimum threshold of 100 cars, and most respondents had owned theirs for only a few months.
Ford's drop can also be attributed to problems with new technologies: the new MyFord Touch infotainment system and the new automated-manual transmission used in the Fiesta and Focus. Lincoln finished above Ford, although the freshened MKX, a cousin of the Edge, suffered from the MyLincoln Touch system. On the bright side, the Ford Fusion Hybrid sedan remained outstanding, and other Fusion versions were above average.
Chrysler had better results with its new models, including the freshened Chrysler 200 (formerly Sebring) sedan and the redesigned Dodge Durango and Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs. The Chrysler brand moved up in the survey, but its rank is based on just two models: the 200, which was well above average, and the freshened Town & Country minivan, which tanked. The remaining model, the 300, is too new for us to have sufficient data.
Detailed Reliability data pinpoints problems
ConsumerReports.org Cars Best Deals Plus subscribers have access to more details about specific trouble areas on thousands of cars one to 10 years old. Both owners and prospective purchasers can delve deeper.
Each of the 17 problem areas we survey covers a host of possible faults. For instance, "Power Equipment" includes keyless entry, dashboard warning lights, tire-pressure monitor, and other things. "Body integrity" includes squeaks and rattles, seals and weather stripping, and air or water leaks, among other things. "Major Engine" problems include cylinder head and timing belt besides replacing the engine itself, while "Minor Engine" includes oil leaks, accessory belts and engine mounts.
To access the finer level of detail, choose any car, new or used, and go to its model-overview page. Click on the tab labeled "Reliability" and that will call up the reliability history, a grid of our familiar red and black scoring icons covering 17 trouble areas and however many model years we have data for.
Some of those individual colored "blobs" are flagged with a gold corner triangle with a "+" sign that indicate when more specific details are available. Click on that triangular corner tab to see more information on the problems owners have experienced.
As an example, looking at the Ford F-150 pickup, we can see multiple years of brake problems. However, in some years the problems were mainly attributed to pulsation or vibration, while in other years it was premature wear. Further, we note that the 2008 model had climate system problems. Now subscribers can see that the major gripe was the automatic climate system control rather than, say, a problem with the air conditioner itself.
Not all trouble spots are flagged. That's because either no or very few specific problems were reported, or because nothing stood out enough in the sub-categories to warrant special mention.
It's "consumer Reports", but, let's try to stay on topic, and not start bashing the magazine. It's not about the magazine. OK?
Link: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ings/reliability-findings.htm?EXTKEY=AYAHFP05
New-car reliability
Ford’s problems show the risks of buying a first-year model
Last reviewed: April 2012
Reliability ratings chart
Research Reliability Ratings for 2011 models by category (available to subscribers). Learn more about reliability and owner satisfaction.
In recent years, Ford has been a model of American reliability. The brand ranked 10th in our predicted reliability ranking last year and competed well with Japanese makes. This year, however, the Ford brand has slipped 10 spots, to 20th out of 28 makes. That was the biggest drop for any major nameplate, according to our 2011 Annual Auto Survey, which is based on subscribers' experiences with 1.3 million vehicles.
What changed? Three new or redesigned models-the Explorer, Fiesta, and Focus-had below-average reliability in their first year. We have often found that new or revamped models have more problems in their first year than in subsequent model years. Ford's problems underscore our advice to hold off buying a new car in its first year.
Other highlights from our survey:
As Ford's star has fallen, Chrysler's has risen. Jeep has moved up seven spots to become the most reliable domestic brand, and all its models for which we have sufficient data scored average in predicted reliability. Chrysler and Dodge moved up 12 and three spots in ranking, respectively.
Japanese brands dominate our survey's upper echelons and took the top nine spots. They were led by Scion, Lexus, Acura, Mazda, Honda, and Toyota.
Jaguar, Porsche, and Audi are at the bottom among brands for which we have sufficient data.
Many hybrids are proving extremely reliable. The top two models in our survey are the Lexus CT 200h and Honda CR-Z. The Toyota Prius was among the top models, rebounding from brake problems that plagued the current design.
Family sedans hold up well overall and are led by the Ford Fusion Hybrid. All of the models for which we have data have at least average reliability. In contrast, only one minivan makes that cut: The front wheel-drive Toyota Sienna is average.
Heavy-duty, three-quarter-ton pickups are among the most problematic vehicles. With the exception of the turbodiesel Ford F-250, they all scored below average.
Fortunes change for Big Three
Ford F-150 EcoBoost
Newly recommended: Ford F-150 EcoBoost
Even with Chrysler's improvement, Detroit models still have reliability problems. Of the 97 domestic models and versions for which we have sufficient data, 62 (64 percent) rated average or better in our new-car reliability ratings.
General Motors has stumbled after edging up last year. The Buick and Cadillac brands, in particular, appear to have taken a step backward; Chevrolet held steady and GMC dropped one spot. The new Buick Regal and Chevrolet Cruze did well in our road tests but were below par in reliability. The Buick La-Crosse, an all-wheel-drive version of the Buick Enclave, and the Cadillac SRX were all deemed reliable last year but dropped to below average and are no longer recommended. General Motors' bright spots include the above-average Chevrolet Avalanche and the Cadillac CTS, which has improved to average.
The gas/electric Chevrolet Volt, with much better than average predicted reliability, ranks as GM's most reliable car but with a caveat: The sample size was just a little more than our minimum threshold of 100 cars, and most respondents had owned theirs for only a few months.
Ford's drop can also be attributed to problems with new technologies: the new MyFord Touch infotainment system and the new automated-manual transmission used in the Fiesta and Focus. Lincoln finished above Ford, although the freshened MKX, a cousin of the Edge, suffered from the MyLincoln Touch system. On the bright side, the Ford Fusion Hybrid sedan remained outstanding, and other Fusion versions were above average.
Chrysler had better results with its new models, including the freshened Chrysler 200 (formerly Sebring) sedan and the redesigned Dodge Durango and Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs. The Chrysler brand moved up in the survey, but its rank is based on just two models: the 200, which was well above average, and the freshened Town & Country minivan, which tanked. The remaining model, the 300, is too new for us to have sufficient data.
Detailed Reliability data pinpoints problems
ConsumerReports.org Cars Best Deals Plus subscribers have access to more details about specific trouble areas on thousands of cars one to 10 years old. Both owners and prospective purchasers can delve deeper.
Each of the 17 problem areas we survey covers a host of possible faults. For instance, "Power Equipment" includes keyless entry, dashboard warning lights, tire-pressure monitor, and other things. "Body integrity" includes squeaks and rattles, seals and weather stripping, and air or water leaks, among other things. "Major Engine" problems include cylinder head and timing belt besides replacing the engine itself, while "Minor Engine" includes oil leaks, accessory belts and engine mounts.
To access the finer level of detail, choose any car, new or used, and go to its model-overview page. Click on the tab labeled "Reliability" and that will call up the reliability history, a grid of our familiar red and black scoring icons covering 17 trouble areas and however many model years we have data for.
Some of those individual colored "blobs" are flagged with a gold corner triangle with a "+" sign that indicate when more specific details are available. Click on that triangular corner tab to see more information on the problems owners have experienced.
As an example, looking at the Ford F-150 pickup, we can see multiple years of brake problems. However, in some years the problems were mainly attributed to pulsation or vibration, while in other years it was premature wear. Further, we note that the 2008 model had climate system problems. Now subscribers can see that the major gripe was the automatic climate system control rather than, say, a problem with the air conditioner itself.
Not all trouble spots are flagged. That's because either no or very few specific problems were reported, or because nothing stood out enough in the sub-categories to warrant special mention.
needsaresto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,603
- Reaction score
- 265
LOL,no kidding!! Some folks only quote media sources,which are biased from the get go.
As for a janitors wages,you try cleaning up after all the frigging pigs at a work place,and then come back and tell me your happy with $10 hr for it.lol..You wont,you'll be too busy trying to figure out why your not the highest paid worker.Cleaning up vomit,unplugging toilets full of **** and some people think it doesnt deserve a decent wage?
Christ,there are more bio hazards involved in janitorial than there are in an average hospital.
HotLines
Realist - Free Thinker
Captain Canuck - That was originally posted by Old Man Mopar - Old Man Mopar, prove what, that the money doesn't go to Japan? I cannot help those who've been brainwashed
Krash Kadillak
Active Member
IMO, the report is missing the point.
GM saw an opportunity - to sell a vast number of vehicles to a huge emerging market. Somebody was going to be selling a lot of cars over there, why not GM? How is this any different than Honda, Toyota et al selling their vehicles in the U.S. market and eventually building them here? Don't most of the profits come back here to the U.S.? GM's partnership with the China companies has allowed them to have modern up-to-date vehicles that compete on a world-class level. Without GM the country wouldn't have been able to meet demand, and the cars would have been crap.
GM is investing overseas in China because it's a good business decision, period.
GM saw an opportunity - to sell a vast number of vehicles to a huge emerging market. Somebody was going to be selling a lot of cars over there, why not GM? How is this any different than Honda, Toyota et al selling their vehicles in the U.S. market and eventually building them here? Don't most of the profits come back here to the U.S.? GM's partnership with the China companies has allowed them to have modern up-to-date vehicles that compete on a world-class level. Without GM the country wouldn't have been able to meet demand, and the cars would have been crap.
GM is investing overseas in China because it's a good business decision, period.
CUUDAK
Well-Known Member
Funny thing,
GM's line of Aveo is Korean made. Daewoo produces the Aveo series of cars. I have family that swear by Korean cars. Several own Hyundai automobiles and I can tell you they have improved by leaps and bounds from the first Excel.
Why on earth would they switch to Chinese crap??
GM's line of Aveo is Korean made. Daewoo produces the Aveo series of cars. I have family that swear by Korean cars. Several own Hyundai automobiles and I can tell you they have improved by leaps and bounds from the first Excel.
Why on earth would they switch to Chinese crap??
Old Man Mopar
Righteous Dude
Brainwashed? You might want to spend 5 minutes or so doing a little
research to make sure you have all of the facts straight.
Toyota reinvests in America and creates jobs....lots of jobs.
Why don't you be the one to look up the total investment in Mexico
facilities by the "domestic" manufacturers?
TOYOTA IN THE UNITED STATES - Toyota Cars, Trucks, SUVs & Accessories
www.toyota.com/about/our_business/our_numbers/
•
Toyota Makes $80 Million Investment in Alabama Engine Plant ...
rumors.automobilemag.com/…-engine-plant-141301.html
•
About Toyota | Our News | Toyota's North American Production Up 18 ...
www.toyota.com/…turing/2011/01/28-1-Production.html
•
Toyota Parts plant in Pendergrass to hire 320 | AccessNorthGa
www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=249777
•
American Made Yes - A report on Toyota in America, Toyota Cars and ...
americanmadeyes.com/cars/toyota.html
•
Toyota Plans to Spend $500 Million on Indiana SUV Plant Revamp ...
www.bloomberg.com/…newsarchive&sid=aKdSZaIid93M
•
Yet Another Toyota Assembly Plant? Mid-South Sites Reportedly ...
www.siteselection.com/…sinsider/pwatch/pw020930.htm
•
Toyota Forecasts 25 Percent Gain in North American Sales, Expands ...
rumors.automobilemag.com/…gine-capacity-132423.html
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