The time has come... 440 freshen for B-body

-
MopaR&D

MopaR&D

Nerd Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2,829
Location
Augusta, GA
My cousin has owned a '72 Polara with a 440 for a few years now and it has been a lot of fun getting it from a barely-running pig back to a proper running state. The car has 46,000 original miles, most of them garage-kept. The engine runs awesome; tons of torque and very smooth. Earlier this year my cousin bought a freshly-painted "roller" of a 1971 Satellite; original slant-6, 3-on-the-tree car with the intent of swapping in the 440 and a 4-speed. The car needs to be totally rebuilt as far as suspension and brakes go, and the interior is basically empty which my cousin is currently working on. This weekend I will drive up to his place which is an hour away and get my first look at the car in person; I have had to wait patiently many months as my cousin has been busy with more important stuff (SCHOOL).

I will be in charge of the engine and chassis work for the car and so far have a pretty good idea in mind of what to do with the engine. He already has lined up an 8 3/4" rear to swap in with cone-style sure grip and 3.55 gears. I am currently looking around Denver for good 4-speed trannies. We really want to put in a 4-speed as the car already came with a 3-speed manual so the conversion will be a lot easier than going from automatic but there are still a lot of things to consider. Anyway some more specifics on the engine... All original 1972 440, has a Performer intake and kinda crappy rebuilt ThermoQuad but otherwise stock. In the Polara it's got HP manifolds hooked up to a 2.5" H-pipe system from TTI; I'm thinking of transplanting the exhaust system to the Satellite and we most definitely want to step up to headers.

I read IQ52's great thread about the 1972 440 build, great stuff. My cousin wants to do a hot-tanking of the block but I feel like with the low mileage we may be able to leave the short block alone. Guess it depends on how it looks when I pull it apart and how much money he has, if the bearings look good we'll go from there. I will also do a compression test before we pull the engine. Anyway I'm thinking of doing a light port job on the heads myself; bowl and (maybe) guide blend and cleaning up the intake ports to match the manifold, also a good valve job maybe 5-angle? I also want to mill the heads to bring up the compression; we're at 5000+ ft. above sea level so it needs as much as it can get. Beyond that pretty typical stuff: RPM intake, better carb, Voodoo 268/276 cam+springs, headers etc.

My main questions so far:
1) What's a good amount to mill off the heads without screwing too much with other things?
2) What would be a good carb to run? I'm thinking a nice double-pumper like a Quick Fuel HR series but what about CFM? Want to be able to tune for decent economy as well...
3) Valve job... what would be the best option?
 
With 46000 miles I don't think it shouldn't come apart at all. If it were mine, I would regasket it with timing chain and oil pump and a new carb.You said it runs really well. Leave it and work the rest of the car over and keep that budget for the more pressing issues. I would research what heads it has (hardened seats) and finish the rest of the car and enjoy it. I would not get in a hurry to rebuild it, I have been through that several times and wish I had not.
 
i'd keep the polara together, get a 440 or 400 from a salvage yard and go after that instead

get it all built up and plunk it in.

i'd also see if a local machine shop will help you learn / help you port the heads. that way you avoid some mistakes plus they can help you clearance everything with your new short block. most shops are pretty cool i'm sure you could find one that would teach you how to port a set of heads. maybe even help you with the valve job too.

they love to teach people.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
My cousin has owned a '72 Polara with a 440 for a few years now and it has been a lot of fun getting it from a barely-running pig back to a proper running state. The car has 46,000 original miles, most of them garage-kept. The engine runs awesome; tons of torque and very smooth. Earlier this year my cousin bought a freshly-painted "roller" of a 1971 Satellite; original slant-6, 3-on-the-tree car with the intent of swapping in the 440 and a 4-speed. The car needs to be totally rebuilt as far as suspension and brakes go, and the interior is basically empty which my cousin is currently working on. This weekend I will drive up to his place which is an hour away and get my first look at the car in person; I have had to wait patiently many months as my cousin has been busy with more important stuff (SCHOOL).

I will be in charge of the engine and chassis work for the car and so far have a pretty good idea in mind of what to do with the engine. He already has lined up an 8 3/4" rear to swap in with cone-style sure grip and 3.55 gears. I am currently looking around Denver for good 4-speed trannies. We really want to put in a 4-speed as the car already came with a 3-speed manual so the conversion will be a lot easier than going from automatic but there are still a lot of things to consider. Anyway some more specifics on the engine... All original 1972 440, has a Performer intake and kinda crappy rebuilt ThermoQuad but otherwise stock. In the Polara it's got HP manifolds hooked up to a 2.5" H-pipe system from TTI; I'm thinking of transplanting the exhaust system to the Satellite and we most definitely want to step up to headers.

I read IQ52's great thread about the 1972 440 build, great stuff. My cousin wants to do a hot-tanking of the block but I feel like with the low mileage we may be able to leave the short block alone. Guess it depends on how it looks when I pull it apart and how much money he has, if the bearings look good we'll go from there. I will also do a compression test before we pull the engine. Anyway I'm thinking of doing a light port job on the heads myself; bowl and (maybe) guide blend and cleaning up the intake ports to match the manifold, also a good valve job maybe 5-angle? I also want to mill the heads to bring up the compression; we're at 5000+ ft. above sea level so it needs as much as it can get. Beyond that pretty typical stuff: RPM intake, better carb, Voodoo 268/276 cam+springs, headers etc.

My main questions so far:
1) What's a good amount to mill off the heads without screwing too much with other things?
2) What would be a good carb to run? I'm thinking a nice double-pumper like a Quick Fuel HR series but what about CFM? Want to be able to tune for decent economy as well...
3) Valve job... what would be the best option?
Click to expand...

Stick shift, big block Polara.... Score! The valve job,bowl work, the best help here. The valve job, needs to work with the bowl blend.( do you have a machinist in mind already?)
Head milling needs new custom length pushrods. Is hood clearance in order for the taller air gap manifold? The Voodoo 268 grind ,looks really good. Used a 750 QFT on my Magnum 360, like it so far. Hope this helps some. Personally I would doo the 268 Voodoo , a bowl blend, good valve job for low & mid lift flow numbers, and a thin set of head gaskets. That stock short block is good? I sure would use it.
 
I think you need to start with two boundaries in mind: The existing condition of the engine overall, and the honest budget. Notice nowhere is horsepower mentioned. You can't machine a block if you're not going to completely strip it and clean it after. So if the budget is small (understanding the 4spd swap and the rest of the car are equal priorities), inspect what you have. If it's good, ignore the compression part and expense of milling, pushrods, etc. Keep it simple. In the same line of thinking - those 3 speeds came behind the 383 4bbls and 340 4bbls. As long as you don't try to power shift them they can take a bit of abuse (personal experience here...) so I'd concentrate on the floor work and installing a 3sd floor shifter setup, then you can always run the 3sp until the 4sd is found or affordable. Another thought is the later A-833OD long tail. That will also work and give you OD. Anyway - those are my thoughts.
 
So I'm up at my cousin's place now, checked out the Satellite today and finished removing all the stuff connected to the 440 in the Polara. After figuring out the total cost for putting in a 4-speed (way too much lol) we decided to use the 727 also from the Polara for now. His budget is around $2000 which isn't a whole lot for what we would like to do with the car obviously. I already learned the hard way from not budgeting a car project properly and we're only gonna buy the bare essentials to swap the engine and redo the brakes and suspension at least so they aren't total crap, then go from there. That's also just the current budget, we should make some of that back from selling leftover parts.

We pulled the plugs and compression tested the front 4 cylinders because the back ones are basically impossible to get to and they all came out to 80-90 psi, including one with an ugly-looking spark plug that might have had some type of leakage (coolant?) I was a little concerned about. Painfully low but sounds about right for 5000 feet elevation and 8.2:1 nominal compression. This is why I think it's so necessary to get the compression up, the high altitude makes everything act like it has around 20% less compression and torque. I run my 10.5:1 360 up here on mid-grade gas with no pinging and it only has a 213/220* @.050 cam.

Here's where we got to today:
10387309_10203696660189263_3482142874482817200_n.jpg
 
70DartMike said:
What kind of shape is the Polara in? Any pics?
Click to expand...

The interior is perfect but the body is kinda rusty especially in the back and the suspension is pretty bad. We're going to swap the engine/trans/rear end and exhaust and part out the rest. It's an awesome car but not worth the expense to fix up I'd rather see the parts go to fix up other C-bodies.

19572_1261589012078_7691342_n.jpg


19572_1261611092630_1905919_n.jpg
 
I dropped off the heads at Colorado Custom Cylinder Head in Englewood, chatted with the owner quite a while and learned a few things. Super nice older gentleman btw very easy to talk to. I decided not to do any porting as he said it would be a very minimal increase in power; he mentioned the heads were very clean castings and recommended a radius valve job (NICE!) and new guides and milling the head .010" for a bit more compression. He said since we're reusing the old shortblock as-is it would be more worthwhile to wait until we do a full rebuild and have the block decked than shave the heads a whole bunch now. He also steered me towards a Howards cam as opposed to a Lunati, he was fine with the voodoo cam I suggested and he said they make good grinds but he's had some bad experiences with their customer service. He's gonna put together a quote for all the parts (springs, lifters, retainers, etc.) and let me know in the next couple days.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
I dropped off the heads at Colorado Custom Cylinder Head in Englewood, chatted with the owner quite a while and learned a few things. Super nice older gentleman btw very easy to talk to. I decided not to do any porting as he said it would be a very minimal increase in power; he mentioned the heads were very clean castings and recommended a radius valve job (NICE!) and new guides and milling the head .010" for a bit more compression. He said since we're reusing the old shortblock as-is it would be more worthwhile to wait until we do a full rebuild and have the block decked than shave the heads a whole bunch now. He also steered me towards a Howards cam as opposed to a Lunati, he was fine with the voodoo cam I suggested and he said they make good grinds but he's had some bad experiences with their customer service. He's gonna put together a quote for all the parts (springs, lifters, retainers, etc.) and let me know in the next couple days.[/Q

Sounds, like a solid plan.... FWIW: That picture of that valve job, it runs down the road. Sure wasn't a good one, ugh.
Click to expand...
 
Abodybomber said:
Sounds, like a solid plan.... FWIW: That picture of that valve job, it runs down the road. Sure wasn't a good one, ugh.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand your lingo here...? Runs down what road? lol

Another very important piece of advice I learned from the machinist, split-pattern cams with bigger exhaust lobes are critical at our high altitude with the lower intake pressure. He didn't go into too many details so I'm thinkin out loud here, I figure it's because the pressure of the burnt exhaust gas is mostly the same as near sea level but the incoming unburnt fuel/air charge is at lower pressure so the exhaust valve needs to be held open more to help "pull in" the fresh intake charge.

BTW it looked like someone had previously taken the heads off, as you can see in the pics the head gaskets on there were replacement Fel-Pros, calipers showed them to be .040" thick. I've seen the thin .020" steel shim head gaskets on Summit, about how much would those increase my compression going from the Fel-Pros?
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
Not sure I understand your lingo here...? Runs down what road? lol

Another very important piece of advice I learned from the machinist, split-pattern cams with bigger exhaust lobes are critical at our high altitude with the lower intake pressure. He didn't go into too many details so I'm thinkin out loud here, I figure it's because the pressure of the burnt exhaust gas is mostly the same as near sea level but the incoming unburnt fuel/air charge is at lower pressure so the exhaust valve needs to be held open more to help "pull in" the fresh intake charge.

BTW it looked like someone had previously taken the heads off, as you can see in the pics the head gaskets on there were replacement Fel-Pros, calipers showed them to be .040" thick. I've seen the thin .020" steel shim head gaskets on Summit, about how much would those increase my compression going from the Fel-Pros?
Click to expand...

The ninth post, third picture... Look at how much thinner that silver band is at 3:00 o clock, compared to the shiny wider stripe at 9:00 clock. That already, tells me the valve guide is, off already.. Have him fix the guides, ask awful. A good bowl cut, and blend beats homegrown head porting....
 
Abodybomber said:
The ninth post, third picture... Look at how much thinner that silver band is at 3:00 o clock, compared to the shiny wider stripe at 9:00 clock. That already, tells me the valve guide is, off already.. Have him fix the guides, ask awful. A good bowl cut, and blend beats homegrown head porting....
Click to expand...

Ah I get it now, actually that was one of the first things he checked he put an exhaust valve in and it wobbled in the guide enough you could see it so yes it's definitely getting new guides.
 
So I'm sitting here with the distributor out of the 440. I closed up the advance plate with JB-weld and filed it a bit but I'd like to know for sure what I'm aiming for. What should be a good advance curve for this engine? It'll be 8.5:1 at best with this cam:

721941-12 271 281 224 234 .518 .543 112 108
1800-5400 Fair idle, Hot Street & mild Bracket Racing. Strong mid range.

First is part number (Howards cam), then adv duration int & exhaust, .050" duration, lift int/exh, LSA, ICL

We will be running 3.55 gears with a 727 and stock 383 converter for a bit more stall (2200??), also the high altitude will require a few more degrees on top of that.

I'm thinking somewhere around 20 initial, 40 total all in at 2500 plus vacuum advance?
 
Nice cam choice, should do well. 224/234 on a 112 should be mellow.
 
Yup should give a nice even power band... don't want to lose any of that monster 440 grunt. My cousin of course wanted a lopey idle but I know better than him lol.

Still wondering about that advance curve though, what y'all thinkin on that? How much mechanical advance should I put in the dizzy?
 
Monthly update lol... we pulled the rest of the engine and trans last week and got the engine on a stand. Should be starting the clean-up and reassembly with the new parts in the next two weeks at the latest. Pics on their way...
 
Been getting a lot done the past couple weeks, the old slant 6 and A-230 trans are out of the Satellite and the 440 is now halfway cleaned up...

1509710_10204313336365782_7345847778172104416_n.jpg


560177_10204313335605763_5822172325343116026_n.jpg


10885255_10204313335885770_1453094253278932016_n.jpg


10931531_10204313336045774_6494243085283966127_n.jpg


1601593_10204313336925796_8030445542870777911_n.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top