Things that shouldn't be.

[circlepilot]

Tried the first start on my 225. Engine is on my test stand rigged and wired as if in the car. (65 Barracuda.) Engine is a "numbers matched" for the car. I finished the engine build at the end of last summer, and this winter I built the test stand. The engine has been decked and head milled .050 each for .100, hardened seats larger valves, balanced crank and rods, .040 over on the bore, head ported and polished, ECU ignition, Holley 350 CFM D/pumper, Offey intake, but stock exhaust manifold, Hughes Cam and springs, lifters etc. (Still working on getting the right headers) All I could get the engine to do was run for a few seconds, coughing and snorting. Here are "things that shouldn't be." There is oil coming from under the cylinder head, the whole way around, oil on the bottom of the carburetor's accelerator pumps. I cannot understand why oil would be coming from under the head. I figure it also entering the cylinders also, because it hydraulic locked on me last night after making several attempts to start it and letting it sit for little to allow the starter to cool down. What has happened? I assembled this engine with a meticulous approach and most of all it's not my "first rodeo" with the slants. Have I used the wrong head gasket?
Norm

 

[MadScientistMat]

Well, that will leave you drained of your sanity...
If it's truly coming from under the cylinder head, that would be a weird head gasket issue. But I would suspect the valve cover gasket or spark plug tube seals first before the head gasket.

 

[Dave999]

sounds like after you had the head and block cut.....and keep in mind i know nothing about slant 6s.... one of the following has occurred

1) location dowels for the head were not reduced in length by the same amount you had cut off...or indeed their holes made deeper whichever is appropriate on your engine..
OR
2) you use head studs and you now run out of thread before the head is clamped down and the torque you see at the torque wrench, is just the nut binding on the non thread bit of the stud. use 2 sets of washers

OR

3) block or head or gasket issue something aint flat

Dave

 

[Charrlie_S]

If the oil is truly coming from under the head, the only place there is oil is at the edge of the head on the spark plug side (splash oil only), or the oil passage between the block and head at the rear pass side for the valve train (pressurized). It is not a common problem, but I have seen an issue of the dowel pins being too long after milling head/block, and holding the head up. But this will usually result in water leakage, and lose of compression. Another issue is something (trash/rust) falling out of a head water passage while installing the head preventing a complete seal. I usually fill the water ports in the head with shaving cream before installing the head. Keeps anything from falling out onto the deck surface, and the cream dissolves as soon as water hits it.
EDIT: Possible head bolts are bottoming out do to .100 milling. Whenever I mill I use hardened washers under the bolt head

 

[Dave999]

i'm inclined to think gasket, in theory it could be compressed enough to contain low pressure coolant but not enough for the higher pressure oil... once it ran long enough to warm up block and head the coolant would show its hand....

how does the oil get up to the rockers do you notice more of an issue near that area...

badly fitted rocker cover and bad running don't necessarily occur together
oil/water in the chamber certainly does mean bad running .....

oil in the chamber and no issues visible from outside no.2 ring is upside down.... I was meticulous and wrong on one occasion i.e got it wrong 6 times... runs great for 15 minutes and then smoke screen follows you and it oils the plugs and won't run..tried that.. not doing it again


Dave

 

[circlepilot]

Thanks for the input. There may be an issue with the dowel pins, (I thought I checked that), I did use thicker, harden washers (special ordered) I used all new ARP head bolts. All these things will have to be gone over again. Very frustrating for young (77) guy like me to deal with.
Norm

 

[circlepilot]

If the oil is truly coming from under the head, the only place there is oil is at the edge of the head on the spark plug side (splash oil only), or the oil passage between the block and head at the rear pass side for the valve train (pressurized). It is not a common problem, but I have seen an issue of the dowel pins being too long after milling head/block, and holding the head up. But this will usually result in water leakage, and lose of compression. Another issue is something (trash/rust) falling out of a head water passage while installing the head preventing a complete seal. I usually fill the water ports in the head with shaving cream before installing the head. Keeps anything from falling out onto the deck surface, and the cream dissolves as soon as water hits it.
EDIT: Possible head bolts are bottoming out do to .100 milling. Whenever I mill I use hardened washers under the bolt head

I remember you told me to make sure to use the hardened thick washers, which I did; special ordered and installed.
I'll let you know what I find out. You all have headed in the right direction.
Norm

 

[Dave999]

do not despair

its just top end..fixable in or out of car...

how do you think i came up with the suggestions (which may be wrong....) above,
i think we have probably all paid in time and money for the odd diversion way off the happy path...and it takes a bit of effort to get back..

 

[70dart340]

I've met and talked to Charlie S at the Garlits show/swap meet. That guy has a huge amount of knowledge.

 

[circlepilot]

I've met and talked to Charlie S at the Garlits show/swap meet. That guy has a huge amount of knowledge.

Yep, he has been working with me on this build for a few years now. I'm hoping to visit with him in a few weeks. I have a class (65) reunion coming up near where he lives. I'm going to start removing the cylinder head in the next few days and re-trace my assembly. I would of started on it right away, but we have too many airplanes to fix. Spent all day today chasing a electrical issue with our local airline.
Norm

 

[Prints Valiant]

If the oil is truly coming from under the head, the only place there is oil is at the edge of the head on the spark plug side (splash oil only), or the oil passage between the block and head at the rear pass side for the valve train (pressurized). It is not a common problem, but I have seen an issue of the dowel pins being too long after milling head/block, and holding the head up. But this will usually result in water leakage, and lose of compression. Another issue is something (trash/rust) falling out of a head water passage while installing the head preventing a complete seal. I usually fill the water ports in the head with shaving cream before installing the head. Keeps anything from falling out onto the deck surface, and the cream dissolves as soon as water hits it.
EDIT: Possible head bolts are bottoming out do to .100 milling. Whenever I mill I use hardened washers under the bolt head

A casting wire dropped out of the head of my 1969 225 during reassembly in 1974. With sub-zero working conditions and the stream of coolant hitting the firewall, I was not happy.