Timimng Trouble

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jeremiah2146fa

jeremiah2146fa

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I'm having some trouble timine my engine. I have a bone stock un molested 360 out of a motorhome. I bolted on an Edelbrock intake, new Holley 600, and swapped manifolds. The origional distributer that was on the engine was turned so much that the vacum advance was facing almost all the way towards the front of the car. I tried turning it back to a normal postion and the engine wouldn't start. Pointed back towards the front it started and ran ok. I think the distributer had a bent shaft, because it wobbled and shook a lot!. I swapped it with a new stock one that I had lying around. The shaking went away, but it still will only run with the vacum advance pointed forward.
I tried hooking up a timing light (yes I unhooked the vacum advance) and the timing was so far off that it wouldn't even register. I turned the distributer (I had to rev the engine like crazy to keep it running while doing this) and got it onto the marks. This required turning the distributer about 45 degrees clockwise. With the distributer turned so that it was within the timing marks, the engine was so advanced that it would barley run and backfired like crazy.
I ditched the timing light and timed it by ear. Making small adjustments I got the engine running pretty good. The idle is fairly smooth and it makes good power,(although it bogs really bad off the line).
So whats deal?
 
Wondering if your distributor/oil pump shaft was installed corectly ?

Off a tooth or two ?
 
Bring it to TDC, move distributor to where you want it, line up the cap terminal with the rotor at 1 or 6 and start plugging the wires in per firing order.

The direction the vacuum canister points is only important if you run out of swing to get it timed correctly. As long as the wires reach the cap, it doesn't matter where you start as long as the rotor lines up with the #1 or #6 terminal when at TDC.
 
Maybe, I was pretty sure that the engine hadn't been messed with though. I pulled it out of the motor home myself, and it had the stock 2bbl on it along with all the annoying emissions stuff which is what made me think that it was all original. Like I said, the distributer was pointed like that while it was in the motor home.
How would I check? I'm not real big on the idea of tearing things apart now that I FINALLY have the car running and driving again, and I am REALLY not fond of buying more gaskets. If there's a way to check for sure what the problem is, I'd be more willing to dig into it.
Thanks
 
Sorry, I was typing at the sime time as you, my last response was directed at the first answer.
OK, I can live with that. What about the bog off the line? It's pretty bad, it dies when I put it in gear unless I feather the gas, and it really only makes decent power from 2k to 4k.
Thanks
 
have you set the timing with a timing light??

and how much advance ?
 
your balancing outer ring has probably slipped...
 
my what? You'll have to be patiant with me, I am totally self taught and most of what I do is closer to gerry rigging than proper mechanical operations.
 
the balancer....is really in two pieces...out and inner ring bonded togother...

old age and weather...the bond fails..and the out ring slips...

once it slips the timing marks will not line went using a timing light...

turn engine over .....line up rotor and cap on number 1...do you see the timing mark llining up on the timing chain cover....OR...line up TDC on balancer with timing chain cover...is rotor pointing an #1,,,,,,,,,,,,,make sure you on the compression stroke otherwise you will be lining up #6
 
ok, I got it to tdc, the timing mark at zero, and pulled the cap. The rotor is pointed at number 1. Also, I've been trying to time it by ear, and I can't seem to find a happy medium. It only makes power with the timing so advanced that it backfires. Even without worring about power, I can't seem to find a middle ground. Either it's too retarded and the engine rattles, or it's too advanced and it backfires. I've gotten it to where it's pretty close, but I think it's gonna drive me crazy!!! And what's with the bogging off the line? It also has a slight miss that I can't figure out. It has new accell plugs, wires, cap and rotor. I'm ready to fire bomb this stupid car! Grrrrrrr...
 
I think I would check timing chain for slop. Have you done compression check? Your slight miss could be an engine problem.
 
Yeah sounds like the dizzy off a tooth or two. I picked up a Fury once that way, for super cheap because everyone at the dealership missed it, well except for my friend who worked there and clued me into the deal :p. I would also check that the gasket is still there.
 
ne57 said:
Yeah sounds like the dizzy off a tooth or two. I picked up a Fury once that way, for super cheap because everyone at the dealership missed it, well except for my friend who worked there and clued me into the deal :p. I would also check that the gasket is still there.
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the dizzy had no teeth on them to be a tooth off....the intermediate shaft has the gear on them...and it can be put in any way you want as long as TDC pistons #1..distribut cap #1 and rotor #1 all line up....
 
70aarcuda said:
the dizzy had no teeth on them to be a tooth off....the intermediate shaft has the gear on them...and it can be put in any way you want as long as TDC pistons #1..distribut cap #1 and rotor #1 all line up....
Click to expand...

True you can put it in anyway you want.
But in can only be put in one way correctly.

No.1 piston TDC, grove on oil pump shaft pointed at the front left intake bolt.

The reason I thought that the shaft was installed wrong,was the orientation of his vacuum advance pod.
 
Tony is right it really doesn't matter where on the distributor #1 is put as long as it is in relation with #1 cylinder TDC.

Like mentioned earlier I would check the timing chain, easy to do. Remove distributor cap, now rotate balancer back and forth. The amount you are able to move the balancer back and forth without the rotor moving is how loose you chain is.

Chuck
 
Johnny Dart said:
True you can put it in anyway you want.
But in can only be put in one way correctly.

No.1 piston TDC, grove on oil pump shaft pointed at the front left intake bolt.

The reason I thought that the shaft was installed wrong,was the orientation of his vacuum advance pod.
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This is true. Sure you can put it in any way you want but timing it is going to be very hard and the only thing you will be able to do is guess.
 
easiest to pull number 1 plug put fingertip in hole bump over with screwdriver slowly until it blows your finger out. look at damper .if its not spun ,you should see the mark .see where rotor is pointing ,make advance can point to right fender wire it from rotor clockwise i belive if its going to run right it should be close enough to start with.
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Maybe a dumb question, but are a couple spark plug wires mixed up? Its easy to do.

Your timing light wire is on no. 1 plug wire, right?

Need to find exact tdc and check where it is relative to the timing tab, if its off mark the balancer.

Anms as said, the timing chain may be off.
 
The original description had the vaccum canister something like 90 degrees counterclockwise from normal position, if i read that right. Wouldn't that indicate someone pulled out the intermeadiate shaft(maybe for priming?) and reinstalled it wrong., and then turned the dist enough to time it by ear only? Yes, its the intermeadiate shaft that has the gear but if that was put in a few teeth off it would put the dist out of phase. If the intermeadiat shaft was in correctly the dist would have to be 180 degrees out for the timing marks not to be in the right vicinity but its not, its closer tom 90 degres out. Wouldn't a timing chain have to be stretched ridiculous to be out that far? The whole valve timing would be so far off the motor probaly wouldn't run at all. It did run but crappy, maybe because the canister hit the manifold and prevented twisting the dizzy enough to get in the right ballpark.

At least that's how the Fury was. $400 for a 6 year old car, half hour of playing and ran like a top after that.
 
ne57 said:
The original description had the vaccum canister something like 90 degrees counterclockwise from normal position, if i read that right. Wouldn't that indicate someone pulled out the intermeadiate shaft(maybe for priming?) and reinstalled it wrong., and then turned the dist enough to time it by ear only? Yes, its the intermeadiate shaft that has the gear but if that was put in a few teeth off it would put the dist out of phase. If the intermeadiat shaft was in correctly the dist would have to be 180 degrees out for the timing marks not to be in the right vicinity but its not, its closer tom 90 degres out. Wouldn't a timing chain have to be stretched ridiculous to be out that far? The whole valve timing would be so far off the motor probaly wouldn't run at all. It did run but crappy, maybe because the canister hit the manifold and prevented twisting the dizzy enough to get in the right ballpark.

At least that's how the Fury was. $400 for a 6 year old car, half hour of playing and ran like a top after that.
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Read post #2.
 
Like I said earlier, I can't be sure, but all signs point to an unmolested engine(origional 2bbl carb, all emissions equip was present) and I pulled it out of a van based motor home. (my experiance is that motor homes don't get messed with much do to the fact that the engine is hard to get to).
I don't know, all I can think to do is replace the timing set and go from there. At least then I'll know that that stuff is ok???
 
>but all signs point to an unmolested engine

You can't bank on that. The dizzy is not in right. The fix is free so why don't you try that before spending time and money on the timing set? In the process of elimination you usually start with either the most obvious or the easiest. Pull and rotate the intermeadiate shaft by the amount your dizzy is pointing forward, but in the opposite direction. Somebody at sometime pulled that dizzy out so its not really unmolested anyway.

If I understood what you said the motor ran better the more you turned it counterclockwise? But you ran out of further travel. That should tell you the dizzy is retarded like crazy.

Johnny Dart, I was just agreeing with you.
 
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