Timing adventures continue . . .

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1974DartSwinger

1974DartSwinger

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For those who don't know, it's a '66 Barracuda with a 360, basically stock.

Oh boy, so I put in the mopar electronic ignition kit yesterday. I put the timing mark on 0 and rotated the dizzy so the cap went to cyl 1. Fired right up, no problems, set initial timing to 5 BTDC with the vac advance unhooked. Took it out for a spin last night and it seemed to lack the touque down low so I figured more advance was in order.
Now this is where it gets interesting . . .
Went out this afternoon to play around with the timing a bit and again, it cranked a little bit (10 sec) but fired up, just like it did with the old points.
I hooked up the timing light to cyl 1 and couldn't see the dam timing mark! After searching with the light it was way down on the low side, retarted waaay down almost out of sight. But the car ran just as it did last night! I am totally stumped how this happened??? I ended up hooking up my vac gauge and played around setting the advance to the highest vac I got at about 800rpm then backed it off a tick. (A friend of mine said he likes to do his timing this way). It fires right up, no problem, sounds good at idle.
Took it out for a spin and at first no real issues, a bit better torque in the down low, absolutely NO bog off the line or from cruise to power, very snappy. Sitting at the first light I noticed it started to idle a bit rough. Popped her into Neutral and it smoothed out a bit but back into D it was a bit rough till it got moving. Hmmmm . . .
Decided not to push my luck so went home and popped the hood, rotated the timing mark back to 0 and popped off the dizzy cap. The rotor was off to the side?!? Not 180 off, but not on cyl 1. I'm a little confused lol . . . Any idea how this happened? And I guess this makes sense that I cant see my timing mark now!
I guess just pull out the dizzy and set everything back up to 0TDC and rotor to cyl 1?

Bear with me guys, its been a while since I was under the hood of an ol' car.
 
I'd be inclined to check the timing mark on the damper against TDC as checked directly through the #1 spark plug hole. The inertia ring may be sliding around on the damper hub.
 
How old is your timing chain? DId you/have you checked to see how much slop is in it?
 
Yeah, start with making sure your reference mark isnt moving by verifying cylinder one TDC on compression stroke. This is easy. Pull the spark plug for #1, then use a wratchet to rotate the engine clockwise. Place a finger over the plug hole while doing this. When you feel pressure escaping under your finger Take a light and look down the hole as the engine is turned. When the piston is at the top of it's travel visually, look at the balancer and timing cover and see where the mark on the balancer is. It should be within 10° of the zero line. If not, it's moved. If it is, the rotor in the distributor should be facing the #1 terminal on the cap. If it isnt, the timing chain may have jumped. You either have a lose outer ring on the harmonic dampener or an issue with the timing chain if your account is accurate.
 
Ok thanks guys! I'll go check the 0 mark and make sure it vibes with TDC.

Dumb question . . . any easy way to make sure that it is TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke not the exhaust stroke?

Just to make sure I have my math correct, to set the timing on an engine "from scratch" you would rotate the engine to TDC on cyl 1, make sure the 0 timing mark is lined up and put the distributor in with the rotor pointing to the cyl 1 post on the cap.



When I rotated the engine the other day to put the dizzy in I turned it by hand with the harmonic ballancer / fan pully. Is that a big no-no? Haha at least its a low compression stock 360 or I most likely wouldnt be able to do it with the plugs still in. Maybe over the winter the heads will be coming off to get buzzed a bit for some extra compression and a little casting clean up port work.
 
skip worrying were the timing mark is on the balancer until you get the #1 piston all the way up-remove plug and use a LONG piece of wire/coat hanger to verify the piston is up to the top, then see were the mark is in relation to the timing cover/tab, if it aint lined up, either make a new mark with a paint pen on the balancer or the cover, but only pick one to mark.
Then you will have a solid reference point when timing it next time.

parts-balancer,crank, timing cover, are all ging to be a lil off.
You'll also find like 5* of tdc-long rod dwell time.
 
Only on compression stroke will you feel pressure a the spark plug hole.. That's why you need to have a finger over the hole while you turn it. It doesnt matter HOW you turn it so long as it's clokwise.
 
Went to Sears yesterday and got a sweet digital timing light that does RPMs too!

Popped out cyl 1 plug, checked TDC and everything was fine except the dizzy wasent lined up right. Popped out the dizzy and set the rotor back to cyl 1.

This is where I feel really dumb now lol . . .

When I put the dizzy back in and wiggled it a bit, it seated. I realized my problem was that I didnt have the stupid thing seated in all the way! It must have rode a few teeth or something to throw off the timing, but anyways, its fine now! I really do feel a little dumb but whatever haha, atleast I didnt break the lobe off or anything really bad.

Set initial timing to 13*, hooked up vacuum and it was 35* at 2000rpm. I may play around with the vac advance or total advance later but it actually runs really really nice now! I runs better than ever actually! And wow, the electronic ignition starts so much easier and faster! Good times :)
 
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