Timing Chain

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KosmicKuda

KosmicKuda

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I am rebuilding a 64 225. I put the Oregon reground cam in and installed the timing set that came with the Enginetech rebuild kit. It installed way too easy and then I noticed that the chain has about 1/2" slack in it. My engine machinist bought the kit because he could custom order standard rod and main bearings and normally their kits list only undersized bearings.

I called Enginetech yesterday to complain about getting the wrong or mismatched parts and they said to go through my engine guy. I haven't been able to get a hold of him for the last 2-3 weeks and I believe he is having health problems. (Cancer survivor) The number on the box matches what Enginetech says it should be but it had a new ID label installed over the old. I offered to send installed pictures but he basically said I'm SOL without going through the purchaser. Thanks for nothing!

Going by the numbers on the gears it looks like I have a Cloyes timing set. I must have thrown away the old crank gear and chain but the new cam gear matches the old one. I counted the links and there are 50 which is correct.
So can anyone speculate why these are messed up? I'm thinking the sprockets are right but the chain is wrong.

I need to get a new timing set soon and am thinking of going away from Cloyes and buying a Sealed power from Rockauto because of this. Can anyone comment on the pros and cons of each brand before I order?
I know I can get a true roller setup for around $100 but I need to put the money elsewhere right now.

P.S. The strange bolt and plate are just there to turn the crank.
 

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Going to the trouble to get an Oregon regrind and then using a stone stock timing chain set makes no sense at all. A top quality timing chain is THAT important. THAT should be the "somewhere else" you spend the money. I would look for a JP or Rollmaster set for it. They are about the best.
 
I believe that some of the parts for the slant 6 timing chain are common with the big block chain..

Could it be possible that someone may have mixed up some of the pieces somehow, either at the manufacturer's plant when packing, or could it have been sold and returned by another customer and the wrong part got introduced that way....
 
That is indeed the Cloyes cam sprocket. If the old one was like that, then this has been replaced before. I installed a Cloyes set not long ago and it indeed had much, much less slack. It suspect you have a bad chain out of the box or something with a sprocket.... or someone got the set, stole the new chain and put their old one back in the box and then returned the set for a refund; there are sleazy people who will do that!

I would buy a new set for $25 or so from Rock Auto (or a box store locally for speed) and see how it fits. If the same, then either they have a bad batch floating around, or something very weird is going on with your block....One related thought...has your block been line bored....ever? This will cause the chain to have added slack even when new.

Beyond that, I posted the separate Cloyes PN's for a double roller set about 6 months back or so in this forum that you can buy for around $100 total; can't think of the thread right now.... but you only have to go through a bit over 2000 of my posts to find it....

Not surprised at your results with EngineTech; they sell to jobbers, not to individuals.
 
nm9stheham said:
Not surprised at your results with EngineTech; they sell to jobbers, not to individuals.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you come up with this. You can buy EngineTech part anywhere. Summit, big box stores, Ebay, anywhere.
 
nm9stheham said:
That is indeed the Cloyes cam sprocket. If the old one was like that, then this has been replaced before. I installed a Cloyes set not long ago and it indeed had much, much less slack. It suspect you have a bad chain out of the box or something with a sprocket.... or someone got the set, stole the new chain and put their old one back in the box and then returned the set for a refund; there are sleazy people who will do that!

I would buy a new set for $25 or so from Rock Auto (or a box store locally for speed) and see how it fits. If the same, then either they have a bad batch floating around, or something very weird is going on with your block....One related thought...has your block been line bored....ever? This will cause the chain to have added slack even when new.

Beyond that, I posted the separate Cloyes PN's for a double roller set about 6 months back or so in this forum that you can buy for around $100 total; can't think of the thread right now.... but you only have to go through a bit over 2000 of my posts to find it....

Not surprised at your results with EngineTech; they sell to jobbers, not to individuals.
Click to expand...

No this was a virgin engine when pulled. 97K and not on the road since 1982. Oh and by matching, I meant same number of teeth and diameter. It still had the original chain and sprockets.

I'm still a little disappointed in Enginetech not willing to make things right, especially since the box has obviously been relabeled. The numbers on the sprockets are S314T and S291 which are correct Cloyes numbers.

It's amazing how Chrysler kinda used similar dimensioned parts across the engine lines.

My engine guy still has the rocker arms for refacing and not sure if I'll get them back if he's in bad shape.

I'll reconsider a roller but going with a silent chain now isn't gonna kill the motor. For a car likely to see maybe 2000 miles/year I can change it at 10,000 miles. The Oregon regrind is the #818, 254 duration, which is pretty mild. barely over stock 318 specs. Seems to me GM used these chains in their junk and they ran pretty good for awhile.

I've got about $1500 into this motor in a car advertised as
"spins freely, needs a carb rebuild".
Yeah right, locked up with 5 of 6 rods frozen in the pistons, oil and coolant passages plugged. Oh, and that reminds me, a starter that was DOA.
 
kosmickuda said:
i've got about $1500 into this motor in a car advertised as
"spins freely, needs a carb rebuild".
Yeah right, locked up with 5 of 6 rods frozen in the pistons, oil and coolant passages plugged. Oh, and that reminds me, a starter that was doa.
Click to expand...
ow! Reminds me of a recent test drive. The seller said the valves needed adjustment....on a hydraulic cam car! Just starting the car told me that 1 piston probably had a hole in it....
 
sargentrs said:
I just put a new Cloyes timing set on my slant and it had nowhere near that much slack. I bought this one from O'Reillys.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm used to ones that are so tight that it takes some finaglin' to install. A new Cloyes set should be good but now I'm debating if I should just stop by Summit on the way home from work and pick up a Comp Cams set. RRR says they're OK so I would avoid his wrath. Don't know if Comp sets are any better than Cloyes. Cloyes has been THE name in chains for as long as I can remember.
This little engine is a back burner thing for me cause I have a lot of other things going on. Like a basement foundation getting rebuilt and finished tomorrow to the tune of $20k.
 
It took awhile but I bought another new Cloyes timing set from Rock Auto. Opened the box, took a look and it was the same deal as the set that came with Enginetech rebuild kit. Got an RMA and returned it along with a distributor gear that was supposed to fit a /6 but really was for a Ford 3.0 V-6. 14 teeth when it should be 13. Their mistake but I still had to pay return shipping…huh? Bought two of the correct gears from NAPA.

Did some on-line research. One Double Roller set was about $210. Ouch that wouldn’t be good for my budget rebuild. Thought about getting a Comp set from Summit for $40 and I could pick it up in person. Then somehow I came across a Rollmaster set made by Romac. $99.54 at buydart.com. (actually came from AD Performance Eng) Well I called them and spoke to the CA surfer dude and ordered it. $14 shipping. Took about a week because Fedex delivered during the day and no one was there to sign for it. The third try was on Saturday and here it is. The saggy one is the Cloyes silent chain.
Installed it last night and it is tighter than…well…it’s pretty tight with no slack. The crank gear has multiple keyways in 2 degree increments to retard or advance the cam. The sprockets are fully machined from steel, not cast. Sweet! Though I didn’t actually taste it.
 

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Very much better. My Cloyes looked like your later one when new. But it already was stretched a bit when I was in there 500 miles later. Your original Cloyes chains must have had something wrong. I'll keep the new one in mind, 'specially with the settable cam timing.
 
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