Tired of Body Filler Hardening Too Quickly?

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harrisonm

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Over the years, I have had lots of problems with working time with fillers. Sometimes you are working on an area where you want some extra time to smooth out, feather the edge, or sculpt the filler. After a few minutes, specially in hot weather, just when things are starting to look good, the filler starts to harden, and you are done. Sure, you can mix up smaller batches, but then you are not really “sculpting’ the way you would like. Plus, it seems like there is always some filler still left on the paddle when it starts to harden. If you mix up 6 ounces of filler, and there is about 1.5 ounces left on the paddle and/or the spreader when it starts to harden, that is about 25% waste. And since I stopped using cheap fillers years ago, that adds up. I have been using Evercoat Rage Gold for several years. But it still cures too fast; specially on a warm day. You can cut back on the hardener a little, but you have to be careful. If you reduce the hardener by too much, the filler does not harden. I have heard that adding fiberglass resin to filler will extend working time a bit, but I have never tried that. Here is what I did find. I watch a YouTube channel called Sylvesters Customs. He does higher end work, and I have learned a LOT. One of his shows was called, “Filler Drying too Fast”. In it, he talks about mixing Evercoat Rage Ultra and Rage Ultra Extra to get greatly extended working times. The chart below is directly off of the Evercoat website. They designed the fillers to be mixed to adjust cure times to your liking. The fillers are not cheap, but if you want extended working time, specially in hot weather, this is the way to do it. You can have up to 13 minutes of working time in 105 degree weather this way!


***.png
 
90 to 100 here almost all the time
 
good stuff when its hot and humid i dont put much hardener in it
 
Put your gallon of bondo in the refrigerator over night along with the tube of hardener.

The cool product slows down the reaction (setup) time.

If you use a steel 3/16" mixing board like I do, you want to keep that cool too. Like keep it in the Air Conditioned house until you need to use it. Same idea with the gallon of bondo vs putting it in the refrigerator.

You get the idea, keep things cool to slow the reaction time.
 
I'm a little concerned about the need to "sculpt" the filler.
Shouldn't a body man get the metal to the point where your filler isn't a 1/2" thick?
 
I'm a little concerned about the need to "sculpt" the filler.
Shouldn't a body man get the metal to the point where your filler isn't a 1/2" thick?

How many guys use a hammer and dolly to work the metal, then anneal it, during if needed, or afterwards? I never learned how to do leadwork from my dad. He kept me away from lead and painting, everything else was ok.
 
How many guys use a hammer and dolly to work the metal, then anneal it, during if needed, or afterwards? I never learned how to do leadwork from my dad. He kept me away from lead and painting, everything else was ok.
I had to look that one up:

an·neal
/əˈnēl/


verb
  1. heat (metal or glass) and allow it to cool slowly, in order to remove internal stresses and toughen it.
    • BIOCHEMISTRY
      recombine (DNA) in the double-stranded form following separation by heat.
 
My point was that it is not a sign of a good body man when one needs to apply filler in thick amounts. The proper procedure is to get the metal as close as possible to the proper shape before applying filler....then the filler shouldn't be much more than 1/8" thick in most cases.
I've made short cuts in bodywork too but it isn't my normal practice.
 
Not a fan of "skim coats" if that's what you're referring to.

...but not a body guy, either.
 
Not a fan of "skim coats" if that's what you're referring to.

...but not a body guy, either.

upload_2022-9-4_11-9-6.jpeg

No bondo some bondo metric shitton of bondo

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minimal bondo metric shitton of bondo


Your wingman is gonna have to drive this barn-find home and he will resent you for the rest of eternity. This one's nothing more than a parts car. The body's blown out, the dash pad is disintegrating the suspension is shot, the engine is running on three cylinders, heater is permanently stuck on full blast, the horn is always on from the time you turn on the ignition until you shut it off, the upholstery is shredded and the stuffing is coming out. The front bumpers may look good but don't believe it, and I'm sure the back bumper's been rear-ended about 8,008 times.
*eyebleach warning
:lol:













































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I'm a little concerned about the need to "sculpt" the filler.
Shouldn't a body man get the metal to the point where your filler isn't a 1/2" thick?

My point was that it is not a sign of a good body man when one needs to apply filler in thick amounts. The proper procedure is to get the metal as close as possible to the proper shape before applying filler....then the filler shouldn't be much more than 1/8" thick in most cases.
I've made short cuts in bodywork too but it isn't my normal practice.

You misunderstand. I am not talking about "thick" coats. I totally agree that good body work will need less filler. I am talking about having enough time on a warm day to spread the filler out exactly like I want it. I DO hammer and dolly to get the metal as close as possible, but very few can get rid of dents and wrinkles in metal so perfectly that primer alone will give a perfect base for the perfect, flat, straight paint job. And how many hundreds of hours do you want to spend trying to get the metal PERFECT when in a lot less time you can get it really close so that only a skim of filler will finish it to perfection? Plus, I don't care how good you are, if you fab and weld in a rust patch, it is going to need at least a skim of filler. All high-end shops use filler to get to that last level of perfection. It's no secret.
So after I get a panel really close, I use filler. I TOTALLY agree that it should not be too thick, but I like to have the time to spread the filler to perfection. Given the time, I can carefully spread (sculpt) the filler out to match the contour of the panel, feather the edges out to eliminate excess sanding and smooth out the surface so that very little sanding needs to be done. This takes time. Specially if you are working on a larger area. When it is warm, and you only have 4 minutes or so of working time, the level of 'sculpting' time I have is limited. You can do this with several small batches of filler; spreading each batch as smooth as possible before it starts to set up. But how nice would it be to have the time to spread it out nicely in one batch. I consider myself to be a very good body man, and my filler is never 1/2" thick. I just wanted to let you know I wasn't talking about wanting the time to "sculpt" thick layers of filler after poor metal prep. I only wanted to share something I thought was pretty cool with other FABO members who would like to have 10 minutes of working time at 100 degrees rather than 3 minutes.
 
You are playing with it too much. Look at the area, plan where you want to place the filler, mix it up, apply it, walk away from it. If you have to play with it until it starts being unworkable, you didn't start with a plan in mind.
 
I have done plenty of bodywork, Bondowork and a mix of the two. I am aware that body filler is necessary. I just questioned the terminology and how it alludes to substandard work.
"Shape" sure seems better than "Sculpt"........

1 laugh 3.jpg
 
You misunderstand. I am not talking about "thick" coats. I totally agree that good body work will need less filler. I am talking about having enough time on a warm day to spread the filler out exactly like I want it. I DO hammer and dolly to get the metal as close as possible, but very few can get rid of dents and wrinkles in metal so perfectly that primer alone will give a perfect base for the perfect, flat, straight paint job. And how many hundreds of hours do you want to spend trying to get the metal PERFECT when in a lot less time you can get it really close so that only a skim of filler will finish it to perfection? Plus, I don't care how good you are, if you fab and weld in a rust patch, it is going to need at least a skim of filler. All high-end shops use filler to get to that last level of perfection. It's no secret.
So after I get a panel really close, I use filler. I TOTALLY agree that it should not be too thick, but I like to have the time to spread the filler to perfection. Given the time, I can carefully spread (sculpt) the filler out to match the contour of the panel, feather the edges out to eliminate excess sanding and smooth out the surface so that very little sanding needs to be done. This takes time. Specially if you are working on a larger area. When it is warm, and you only have 4 minutes or so of working time, the level of 'sculpting' time I have is limited. You can do this with several small batches of filler; spreading each batch as smooth as possible before it starts to set up. But how nice would it be to have the time to spread it out nicely in one batch. I consider myself to be a very good body man, and my filler is never 1/2" thick. I just wanted to let you know I wasn't talking about wanting the time to "sculpt" thick layers of filler after poor metal prep. I only wanted to share something I thought was pretty cool with other FABO members who would like to have 10 minutes of working time at 100 degrees rather than 3 minutes.

Thanks for sharing, just remember if you play with it too much you'll get hairy palms and go blind.

In 100 degree heat, I ain't doing anything though.
 
I always seem to use too much hardner, but when its 108 here in Tx. ////////// guess I just got to be quicker!!
I've made them perfect and then hated to drive them, especially if they were worth more than I could justify having for a toy. Cars always came and went.
Now I get rid of the rust, make them solid and when someone looks to buy my "not so perfect" car I tell them I built a car to drive and WHEN you hit 74 maybe your work will be less critical!!!! People want a $10,000 BJ paint job for $1000 and the car thrown in for free.:poke::steering:
 
Put your gallon of bondo in the refrigerator over night along with the tube of hardener.

The cool product slows down the reaction (setup) time.

If you use a steel 3/16" mixing board like I do, you want to keep that cool too. Like keep it in the Air Conditioned house until you need to use it. Same idea with the gallon of bondo vs putting it in the refrigerator.

You get the idea, keep things cool to slow the reaction time.
I have tried that It certainly does give you a little extra time. I do the same with 2K Polyester primer.

I have done plenty of bodywork, Bondowork and a mix of the two. I am aware that body filler is necessary. I just questioned the terminology and how it alludes to substandard work.
"Shape" sure seems better than "Sculpt"........

View attachment 1715981062
I agree. I can see where you thought of 'sculpting' as slathering on a whole can of filler and then sculpting it into a work of art. I do like shaping better.
 
Those $10,000 paint jobs at the "resto" shps, tend to slather a thin coat of filler over the whole darn car, BUT it ends up being perfect bc/cc shiny as a monkeys ***.
Since I'm not into such, personally I like solid rust free metal, good thing I'm i am my only audience.
 
You misunderstand. I am not talking about "thick" coats. I totally agree that good body work will need less filler. I am talking about having enough time on a warm day to spread the filler out exactly like I want it. I DO hammer and dolly to get the metal as close as possible, but very few can get rid of dents and wrinkles in metal so perfectly that primer alone will give a perfect base for the perfect, flat, straight paint job. And how many hundreds of hours do you want to spend trying to get the metal PERFECT when in a lot less time you can get it really close so that only a skim of filler will finish it to perfection? Plus, I don't care how good you are, if you fab and weld in a rust patch, it is going to need at least a skim of filler. All high-end shops use filler to get to that last level of perfection. It's no secret.
So after I get a panel really close, I use filler. I TOTALLY agree that it should not be too thick, but I like to have the time to spread the filler to perfection. Given the time, I can carefully spread (sculpt) the filler out to match the contour of the panel, feather the edges out to eliminate excess sanding and smooth out the surface so that very little sanding needs to be done. This takes time. Specially if you are working on a larger area. When it is warm, and you only have 4 minutes or so of working time, the level of 'sculpting' time I have is limited. You can do this with several small batches of filler; spreading each batch as smooth as possible before it starts to set up. But how nice would it be to have the time to spread it out nicely in one batch. I consider myself to be a very good body man, and my filler is never 1/2" thick. I just wanted to let you know I wasn't talking about wanting the time to "sculpt" thick layers of filler after poor metal prep. I only wanted to share something I thought was pretty cool with other FABO members who would like to have 10 minutes of working time at 100 degrees rather than 3 minutes.
For me painting is the easy part. Finishing bodywork has always been hard for me. I'm gonna keep trying though and all of these tips help immensely. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.
 
When it gets to be around 100 degrees I just wave the open tube of hardener over the plastic filler. :poke:
 
Thanks for the tip. I ran into the same issue this last month. Even just using about 1/4 the amount of hardener that the can called for only got me about 30 seconds or less of work time.

The price of body filler these days is ridiculous. Seems like it's doubled since covid started.
 
Thanks for the tip. I ran into the same issue this last month. Even just using about 1/4 the amount of hardener that the can called for only got me about 30 seconds or less of work time.

The price of body filler these days is ridiculous. Seems like it's doubled since covid started.

I agree and price of everything we have to buy is up or way way up! Body/paint supplies for sure! I looked up price of some single stage topcoat other day, its up but the price of 2 qts equal 1 gal. Before it was 3 qts equal a gal. price.
 
I saw that video during research for my current build. It was impressive watch him work with the materials. But!!!! He was weighing the material on a scale to get his mix just right. How many of us are weighing our mud on a digital scale. That was some high end stuff right there.
 
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