Top end noise

-
although your break in procedure sounds good,what kind of oil did you use for the break in ??? :glasses7: anything with zinc ??
 
lilcuda said:
Pull the engine, disassemble, inspect crank, bearings, rings & oil pump. May need to replace bearings & polish the crank.

The way to prevent it for sure is to run a hydraulic roller cam.

Sorry this happened to you. Been there, done that. It sucks.
Click to expand...
X2, it's sad but true. That missing metal has traveled somewhere and has probably done some damage. Pull it apart and clean and check everything, especially the oil pump.
 
Did you use an oil for flat tappet applications? If not did you add a zinc additive? There are special additives to break in a flat tappet motor, the newer oils Don't contain the necessary zinc and phosphorous that our flat tappet engines need. I use Valvoline VR1 Racing oil or the new Brad Penn oils. Now everyone has there pref. on oils all I'm saying is make sure you have the proper additive package for our flat tappet engines. Ive seen more than one cam or lifters wiped out because of this.
Good Luck and keep us posted!

Tom
 
Well, you found the issue. Sorry to see this.

Like everyone else already said, you need to pull your engine and get all that metal out and pay special attention to the oil pump.

Use a name brand zinc additive next time with quality oil and save the AZ oil for the lawnmower.
 
Agreed the correct way from here is to take it all apart and clean everything again and start over, now with that being said I will also say that I have done cam swaps with no issues without a total tear down after a lobe has gone away so it is your call from here.

My advice on break-in, upon initial start up make sure the timing feels good and wait untill correct oil pressure is obtained and all ticking has gone away, then it is right to 2000 RPM max, never above 2000 and never below 1500 for 20 min. and your done. If you desire to extend it to 30 min the do so or for some reason you need to shut it off while breaking in the cam just have the amount of minutes you have used up documented and finish up the rest as soon as you get whatever issue straightened out to be able too. I personally stop at 20 min and have never had a problem and I have done countless cam break-in's. You should be adding a zinc additive to the oil too like Cam Shield and using all the cam assembly lube supplied by the cam manufacturer by first rubbing is very generously into the cam and then dumping the rest into the oil.
I hope this helps, good luck with it.
 
same deal happen to me on a new 408. Had to do a totle rebuild,all new bearings, polish crank, boil block , new rings, new solid cam and lifters, new oil pump used two cans of redline zinc additive. good to go now I use redline 20-50 works good for me O72D
 
Aren't the tappets supposed to be harder than the cam already? Is zinc really an absolute necessity in all break ins?
 
I guess its just hard for me to believe that not adding zinc caused all of this. Does anyone have any other explanation? I checked another lifter and it was wearing on the bottom as well but not nearly as bad.
 
No, it was lack of zinc. Lost a Big Block due to a wiped lobe.Use a good quality modern oil,add STP or Lucas cam break in.Or use a racing oil.Valvoline VR 1 is good for the price.Comp cams can service treat a cam,but it's a c note on top of the cam price.Or, hyd roller($$$$$).
 
If you run a roller cam you never have to worry about that zinc problem ever again.
 
Yeah but roller lifters can still break. With mild cams its not a problem but then same with lifters going flat. The bar the roller rides on can break or wear out.

Zinc helps the bearings and pistons also. These new cars get 200,000 miles on their engines due to reduce rpm's and they are de-tune, not making close to max power.

improper beak in caused the cam to go bad. Did the engine fire right up or did you crank and crank the engine to start it. Did you change the oil after the 30 min semi-break in ?

I didn't relax till 300--500 miles was on the engine. I kept the idle at 1,100 rpm till then and even now have it set at 900 rpm's. Low rpm's kill cams
 
The reason was primarily from improper break-in, 3000 RPM is too high to break the cam in at. I cant stress enough at the 2000 RPM limit, I have ran the break-in on more engines then I can count and we do many performance builds each year, and I personally have never lost one cam. Yes zinc is needed but you only need the oil the engine was built to have in it, thicker oils are not recommended, I use 10/30 or 5/30 depending on the engine. Even our B/SA car gets the break in on 10/30 and then is switched to full synthetic 0/10 RP.
Did you let it idle for any length of time when you did the break-in prior to getting the RPM up or during the time you were completing the break-in? Other then waiting for exceptable oil pressure and all the ticking to stop it should then be immediatly brought to the 2000 RPM range and the 20 min. of break-in from there. I also recommend to shut it off after break-in and let the engine cool down a bit before restarting and completing tune-up.
 
dodge freak said:
Yeah but roller lifters can still break. With mild cams its not a problem but then same with lifters going flat. The bar the roller rides on can break or wear out.

Zinc helps the bearings and pistons also. These new cars get 200,000 miles on their engines due to reduce rpm's and they are de-tune, not making close to max power.
-sorry but I disagree, yes they get 200K but it is due to superior engineering and they certaintly are not detuned and they run at higher max RPMs then early stock engines ever thought of running at.

improper beak in caused the cam to go bad. Did the engine fire right up or did you crank and crank the engine to start it. Did you change the oil after the 30 min semi-break in ?

I didn't relax till 300--500 miles was on the engine. I kept the idle at 1,100 rpm till then and even now have it set at 900 rpm's. Low rpm's kill cams
Click to expand...
-low RPMs do not kill cams, set your idle where it belongs, improper break-in kills cams.
 
Hey guys, Im just curious...everyone is mentioning different oils and such, but 72DSV8 mentioned at the beginning that he did not prime the engine, could that not have been a contributing factor?? Just curious.....
 
4spdragtop said:
Hey guys, Im just curious...everyone is mentioning different oils and such, but 72DSV8 mentioned at the beginning that he did not prime the engine, could that not have been a contributing factor?? Just curious.....
Click to expand...

The priming debate... for me personally my answer is no it was not the factor, but... you need to fill the oil filter before installing it and you need to prime the pump too before installing it as well. I personally do not put the dist. drive gear in untill I am ready to start so if the engine is turned over it does not push the initial prime out of the pump untill ready to fire.
I'm sure some will like to say it is a must to manually prime the engine before start up but I can tell you through many many years of personal experience I have found it is not needed.
 
Needs to come all apart, Brad Penn 30 weight break in oil, just my two cents but the 3000 rpm break in and the oil killed it, more the oil than the rpm, All that metal is in the bearings, piston skirts,rings, on and on and on, sorry, Needs the zinc.
 
Im reading that some of guys believe 3k is too much rpm for a cam break in, and in normal perfect circumstance..I can agree that 3k is on the high side...BUT...Here is my thought on this and it's based purely on real experience, when ever you have seat pressure on the high side..you want to get those lifter spinning pronto...as well as an even splash of oil thrown up from the crank as well as getting the oil psi up to blown around the lifters from the lifter oil galley...

Any time I have 125-145 seat pressure with a single spring/dampener...I always run the engine between 2200-3000rpm and have never lost a cam lobe doing this.

like I said...the reason for the rpm fluctuation and rpms of up to 3k...is to get lots of oil thrown up to the cam, it's extra on top of the oil coming from the lifter bores....btw why do you think its not recommended to break a cam in at idle?= cause that will not/may not get them spinning soon enough/fast enough, and rpms allow oil to to be thrown up to the cam as well.

I agree that if you do not change the oil after the 20-30 min cam break in...that you can have issues of premature bearing wear and or possible cam failure.

the last 318 w/340 cam 135 seat psi ...I broke in at 2500-3000....and after the 1st 10 min...just set the idle to 3k and walked away...and that particular engine had lots of lifter clatter from the lifter not even pumping up all the way yet....lol...it was almost worrying me....but ....yrs later here this motor is running strong, no noise, all lobes are bitchin 'checked while changing intakes'....

I would NEVER recommend something I thought was detrimental.

good luck
 
The lifters are harder than the cam, but the lifters need to rotate in the bores, if they don't rotate or over heat thats when the lifter / cam goes bad. O72D
 
Here's the plan. I'm going to get a new camshaft and lifters, change the oil and filter, drop the pan and check a main and rod bearing. If there's no scoring or anything, I'll put it back together and break it in with zinc at 2500 to 3000 rpms fluctuating every 5 minutes. Sound good?
 
Click your mouse on AAR's underline.Or order it over the phone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top