TorqueFlite A727 Won't upshift from first.

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laforg

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OK, folks, this is gonna be a little weird. I have a 1973 Jeep DJ5c Postal Jeep. Yeah, I know, there's a Jeep forum, but this is a chrysler-specific problem, so I thought this might be the right place after all. This Jeep was upgraded a bunch of times by the previous owner, so now it has the engine/transmission combination from a newer model, I think the '75. AMC 232ci straight six and Torqueflite A727 tranny. After having everything work perfectly for a long time, suddenly the 727 stopped shifting into second gear. I've tried manual shifting, releasing the throttle, going really fast…it just won't upshift. First is the only forward gear I got. Everything else works normally, reverse is fine. Question is, where do I start to look for the problem? I've never worked with a Chrysler setup before, and I understand it's got some… differences from the TH350. Will a simple filter change do it, or do I have to pay the guy a buncha money to rebuild it?
 
Is the kickdown linkage (throttle pressure linkage) hookup and adjusted properly?

Reverse work?
 
Well there are numerous things that can cause this problem But start with the simple stuff.
Check oil level ( Trans @ operating temp. Motor idling, trans in N, vehicle on a level surface)
Check oil condition. Should be cherry red. Sniff the dipstick. Oil should not smell burned.
Check throttle pressure linkage adjustment. Throttle pressure is controlled by a linkage on the 727 & with engine vacuum on the TH350.
Check the shift linkage adjustment.

Your problem could also be caused by a govenor malfunction or a hydraulic issue within the valve body.

Other causes could be a broken front band, a leaking or broken front servo piston, broken or bent front band strut or defective sealing rings on the input shaft.

Tracy should chime in to add a few more that I may have forgotten.
Cheers. Gaz
 
Checking the fluid level was the very first thing I did, previous owner did a rebuild and damaged the front seal so I have to keep a close eye on that. It was fine. Reverse works fine, too. Didn't know there was a linkage for throttle position, I'm used to haven a vacuum modulator. I was a little shocked when I couldn't find it. Where does the linkage connect on both ends and how do I check the adjustment? Thanks guys!
 

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Kickdown linkage goes from the throttle linkage on the carb. down to the trans. right above the drivers front corner of the pan.
 
Some guys just zip-tie the throttle pressure lever back somewhere.Works for a while. But yeah, I agree with the governor failed, as most likely.If the front band failed, seems to me the trans would have a false neutral there.
-Heres what we do know; Since it moves, the forward clutch(rear clutch) works and the rear overun sprag too. And since reverse works that means the direct clutch(front clutch) and low/reverse band are working as well. Since it cant be manually shifted and it doesnt flare to neutral on asking for second gear,the trans appears to have a stock valvebody and we cant check the front band except by visual inspection.
-So in all likelyhood the problem is hydraulic. With a stock VB, and in Drive, the governor commands all shifts. No shift = governor problem.
 
Um…it's supposed to go on that stud, isn't it? And the kick down lever is right on top of the shift lever on the left side of the transmission?
 

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Im not familiar with that mechanism. But where is that mechanics-wire going? The one just behind the arm. -I should also add, that the governor pressure works to cause all upshifts.It tries to get into hi fairly early.Now the throttle pressure tries to delay those shifts in accordance with how far the throttle is opened.So if the throttle rod is disconnected or missing, then the shifts are just very early( and somewhat soft). If you wire the throttle lever back,at the tranny, then the shifts are delayed( and fairly harsh).But it will shift, no matter where its adjusted.A no 1-2 shift, if hydraulic,has got to be the governor or governor circuit.Well, I suppose it could be a stuck valve; like maybe the 1-2 shift valve, or the pressure regulator valve. But I doubt that. I have seen this experience when the little E-clip popped off the gov.rod. Then the valve fell into the tail house. Easy fix for me.Maybe not for you if your Jeep is 4 wheel drive.
 
That's the throttle cable. Pulls on that cam which pulls down on the linkage to the carb, while pushing backwards on the kick down linkage. No, it's only 2wd, but automatics scare the daylights out of me. I'll change a filter, but that's about as far as I can take it. As far as the kick down goes, after everybody said I needed it I checked, and the lever is spring-loaded to the idle position. Anyway, bottom line is that I'll probably have to send this one in?
 
Well I can think of one thing.
-If your trans has the large style speedo adapter, I would pop it out. Then,with a flexible shaft magnet,fish around in the tailhouse for the governor parts. Some oil will drain out of there, depending on how you have jacked it up.If you find it,its a fairly simple job to remove the tailhouse for a visual. If you dont find it, it may have migrated into the pan,or it may still be assembled correctly. I think it would be possible to rotate the driveshaft,in Neutral/engine off, and hear the valve dropping down against its stops( speedo out). You would have to listen very closely. Maybe have an assistant turning the driveshaft or wheel(s).I think it would also be possible to, through the speedo hole, push the valve or flyweight up into the bore and feel it drop back down. You would need to be somewhat familiar with how the mechanism is assembled, because it would only work with the output-shaft in one of two positions.
-I also think though that it would just be better to drop the driveshaft,support the trans, and unbolt the mount and then the tail-house.If you choose this method, just make sure that you can still remove the pan, because in the event that the governor is ok, the next thing to do is to remove it(the pan).And then the valvebody.
-Alternatively you could install a pressure guage in the governor circuit, then go for a drive and see if there is any pressure in the line. This could also be done with both rear wheels in the air and the vehicle secured. Watch out for stuff flying off the tires.
-I just realized, looking at the clock, that in the time it took me to one-finger type this and proof-read it, I could probably have at least proved the governor, had you been here.I type reealey sloooowley.
-Anyway,best of luck to you.
 
Also, if the wire is the throttle cable, then where is the link-rod going? I have never seen it done that way. Generally the throttle cable goes directly to the throttle lever on the carb. Then on vehicles where the back of the engine is set very close to the firewall, a link-rod goes down to the bellcrank. And then a second link-rod goes to the "KickDown" lever.
-As to your pic; I assume this is on the drivers side of the engine, and the trans is in the same direction that the exhaust pipe is going, namely to the right.So then,in your pic,you may be right;there should definitly be a link-rod from the bellcrank to the KD lever on the trans. But it seems that stud is in the wrong place;it looks almost upsidedown,that is rotated 130* or so,ccw, at least to me.Im having a really hard time visualizing the rest of the system. Perhaps another pic,showing all the linkage from the bellcrank to the carb.
-as I said, Im not familiar with that mechanism.And I cant think how its not being there could suddenly cause a failure to upshift.But I can totally see the governor E-clip failure scenario.
 
One more thing; you say the KD lever is spring loaded in the idle position. Do you mean that someone has installed a spring externally, and pulling towards the front of the car? Because that wood be bad.But if an external spring was pulling to the rear that would work, allbeit harsh and or late shifts might result.
-However in the absense of an external spring, be advised that internally, there is a small spring in that valve system which parks the Throttle Pressure(KD) valve and is easy to feel with the link-rod removed.
-Ok bed time...
 
This is just so you understand the setup a little better. The throttle cable pulls on that bell crank, which moves the KD rod backwards (to the right in the pics, toward the firewall) and the throttle rod…I think there's another bell crank, cuz that link moves downward. This setup is just too close to the firewall to have a direct linkage. And yes, that really is a one-barrel downdraft carburetor. Might look a little foreign to you big-iron guys. This is just a little AMC 232 straight 6. A Rambler by any other name is still a Rambler!!! Thanks for all your help, I knew this was the right place to go! I'll check inside the speedo hole for that governor, but either way I'm gonna have to pull the tranny down.
 

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OK, I think I got It.
-NO,no, no.Its highly unlikely that the trans will need to come down.Dont do it just yet.
-So I think we have a miss comunication. Is there a cable that connects the foot pedal to the carb butterfly? If yes that would be what I call a throttle cable. Any other cable will have to be called something else. If you then have a second cable from the bellcrank to the carb, or bellcrank to footpedal lets call that a KickDown cable. If Im right so far then we just need to connect the bellcrank to the KD lever at the trans.
-But if Im wrong, then thats why I asked about the rod in the first picture. Where does it go?I mean its possible for a system to be designed where the footpedal is connected to the bellcrank first and then split off one link-rod up to the carb and a second link-rod to the KD lever.So,which ever system you have, it still needs at least 2 link-rods and 1 cable.
-Anyway.I think your tranny is fine, except for the governor system.The only parts that might need to come down are A) the tailhouse, and/or B) the ValveBody. Neither of which is overly complicated. On a 1967up trans there are no checkballs to worry about during removal of the VB.
-So jack up the drivers side rear end up as high as you can and have at it.Well within reason I mean, and dont skimp on the safety aspect.
 
Ok,I totally get it now.You have the second type.That also explains the odd shape of that unused stud. You will need a special link-rod for that. On the front end,it will need to have the long slotted adjuster to fit and slide (forwards and backwards) on that stud. On the rear, whatever fits there. And the slotted adjuster will need to be a threaded arrangement, so that you can adjust the kickdown point and/or shift quality.. It would be difficult to build that part, so I suggest to visit a wrecker.Until you find one you should really tie the KD lever back, to prevent premature death of the bands and clutches.To do this;Grab the lever and move it towards the springy side(usually towards the back of the vehicle).When you begin to feel the spring take note of its position, then continue to move against the spring until it will no longer move. Again take note of its position. About half way between these two noted positions is the position I would tie it. Now take it for a roadtest.If the shifts are not overly harsh, I would tie it back a little further, until shifts are a little uncomfortable.I would also try to stay away from full throttle.
 
Hi AJ!
Yes, you got it right. Gas pedal cable to bell crank, bellcrank linkage up to carb AND a second linkage back to KD lever. I've already talked to the Postal Jeep guy in Alabama, he has the linkage I need. So I need to tie back the KD lever about halfway through it's travel…why to the point of uncomfortable shift?
Thanks! I KNEW this was the right place to go for this!
OH!!! One more question. I get a really LOUD growl, roar, whatever you want to call it, on deceleration. When there's no load on the transmission it makes a horrible racket. If I keep some power on and slow down with brakes (takes both feet!) it doesn't do it. Torque converter?
 
-The tie-back is to provide enough oil pressure to the internal parts to prevent damage especially when using a lot of throttle( ie. take-off and accelerating). As soon as you get the proper KD parts installed, you can remove the tie-back, and then adjust the linkage to factory specs.
-As to the decel noise, are you absolutely sure its coming from the trans? I have never heard that type of noise from an auto.I have heard rear ends do that. Does it roar in all gears? And only on decel? If it really is the auto, Id drop the pan;then if its got filings in it, take it down. But,it really sounds to me like a differential problem. Id be more willing to inspect the rear end first.
-Also, you could check the crankshaft endplay. Maybe the convertor bolts are rubbing on the back of the block.That doesnt usually sound like a growl or roar.It sounds more like a clacking that keeps time with the RPM. And if it rubs on the inspection cover, then its a scrapping noise.
-I suppose you could also check the tranny mount. If it goes, it could transmit noises into the floorpan.
 
Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread, AJ. I tried tying back the kick down lever, it did nothing at all. I'll try taking down the tailstock next, but I wonder...I've been using Lucas transmission treatment (just a really thick trans fluid) as it leaks down...could that be keeping the valves from opening/closing ? Either way I'm gonna drain the fluid and change the filter. Checking the governor is next I guess.
Thanks again!
Dan
 
how about pressure test the gov port, to see if its ramping up at all
 
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