Has any body used the 1 inch firm feel torsion bars 
ops:thanks
ops:thanks
torsion bars
- Thread starter jockeyshift
- Start date
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BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Yessir, many posts. Don't recall anyone saying they were too stiff, but some didn't like the clocking of the hex's.
Woods74
Broke Senior
Why doesn't anyone search? You'll find just suspension 1" to be the most cost effective. Discount code 'shopalizer' .
They are all the same dude.
They are all the same dude.
lilcuda
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2006
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In my case, there are two reasons I bought from Firm Feel instead of Just Suspension -
1. I bought heavy duty shackles from Just Suspension and they were kinda rude on the phone.
2. I like to support small businesses like Firm Feel. Dick Ross gave me a lot of free advice and I wanted to support him and his small company.
3. I though of one more - Firm Feel makes their own torsion bars in-house. Who makes the ones for Just Suspension?
This is absolutely NOT TRUE. Just because a bar is 1" in diameter does not mean it has the same spring rate or clocking as another 1" bar.
The spring rate does depend on diameter, but also on metallurgy. A 1" bar from Firm Feel does not necessarily have the same rate as a 1" bar from Just Suspension. In fact I would bet money that they're different by at least 10 lbs/inch. Just Suspension doesn't publish their rates, but you can see this comparing the Mopar Performance torsion bar rates to Firm Feel bars of equal diameter for the same application. Some vary as much as 20 lbs/inch.
The indexing or "clocking" of the bar is entirely up to the manufacturer. Just Suspensions 1" bars are zero indexed. I'm almost positive Firm feels 1" bars are not, as I know for a fact that their 1.12" torsion bars are not zero indexed. Firm feels bars are made custom in house, and I believe Just Suspensions bars are unique to JS as well.
At the very least then, the ride height between the Firm Feel bars and the Just Suspension bars will be different. And I would bet that the spring rates are at least slightly different. I ran Just Suspension 1" bars on my Duster, they are actually quite soft for a 1" bar. Much stiffer than stock, but I would venture that they have less rate than one of the .99" mopar performance bars or a 1" firm feel bar.
***edit***
Also, I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that they're different. For a lowered stance, the Just Suspension bars might be a better choice because of the indexing. Conversely, if you want to run stock ride height you might want to get the Firm Feel bars, as folks have had trouble adjusting the JS bars to get that high. Same thing depending on your spring rate preference.
I check with js over the internnet.But then all the bad posting has me worried even the BBB was looking at them.I done buniess with them when they were in N.J.& N.C and no worries.I checked with firmfeel because I want to raise the dart 1 to 2 inches for ground clearance and header clearance. Firmfeel is a little more money but maybe less headaches.
Firm Feel's 1.06 bars are good for the street. Definitely not too stiff, even for us old guys.
armyofchuckness
The Flying Valiant
Good info. I will probably buy mine from Firm Feel just because I had a really good experience buying from them before, the parts I got were high quality, and they really seem to know what's what with A bodies.
I was also thinking about 1", but the more I read, the more I think 1.06" will be what I'm looking for.
I was also thinking about 1", but the more I read, the more I think 1.06" will be what I'm looking for.
Woods74
Broke Senior
Thanks for the info, where did you find it? Just trying things out?
I have a couple sets of JS 1" bars that I bought on eBay when they were on sale awhile back, right after they introduced them. I ran them for a bit in my Duster when I first dropped in the 318. They ride pretty nice, actually fairly soft for a 1" bar. Still light years ahead of stock V8 bars. They are "zero indexed" though. I run my Duster fairly low, and I did have a little room for upward adjustment, but not much. After the bars have settled down I can see why folks that want to run a stock ride height might have issues.
Firm Feels bars are made in house, at least according to them. So they're only available from Firm Feel. I run a set of their 1.12" bars in my Challenger, and have for over 40k miles now. They perform great, no issues. Which is why I installed a set of their 1.12" bars in my Duster. That's a 300 lb/in rate, which is a lot. But with Bilstien shocks up front, I can't say that its any stiffer than my g/f's 2013 Mustang with the premium suspension package. I haven't gone to my 18" wheels yet, but its not at all bad on the street. I also run a pretty significant amount of chassis stiffening and poly bushings. I know the B/E body 1.12" bars are NOT zero indexed, but I didn't check the A body bars. Firm Feel uses custom offsets to get the ride height correct. Easiest way to check is to just lay the bar on the ground, if it sits on the flats on both sides its zero indexed. If it sits on a flat and a point, its 30*, and if its somewhere in between, well, its somewhere in between.
As far as the info on torsion bar rates, Mopar performance used to publish all of theirs (see table below) and Firm Feel publishes theirs. There's an equation to determine wheel rates for the torsion bars, I don't have it at the moment but it depends on the length of the LCA from pivot to ball joint, diameter and length of the torsion bar, and the torsion bar's torsional spring constant. That last item, the torsional spring constant, comes from the the metallurgy of the bar itself. For example an aluminum torsion bar would obviously have a very different rate than a steel one. But even among the type of steel used for torsion bars, slight changes in the alloy can result in changes in the spring constant, so bars made by different manufacturers have different rates. If you look a the chart below, and Firm Feels chart for their bars, you see that a Mopar Performance bar for an A body with a 1.09" diameter has a 300 lb/in wheel rate, while it takes a 1.12" diameter Firm Feel bar to get the same 300 lb rate. Its not a HUGE difference, but they are different, and if you're fine tuning your suspension for a certain rate its important. If you're just looking to upgrade to better handling its not as important as any 1" bar would be a big improvement over stock. Firm feels chart is here http://www.firmfeel.com/torsionb_a.htm
All of the OE bars are clocked at 30*, but aftermarket bars can be clocked or indexed as the manufacturer chooses. Most aftermarket bars are much larger in diameter, so there is very little give in the bars. If they were indexed at 30*, you wouldn't be able to get the car DOWN to stock, as the weight of the car doesn't lower the suspension as much. That's the whole point, a larger bar with a higher rate means that the suspension will travel less for a given input. But I suspect a lot of the companies go all the way to a zero index (like the 1" JS bars) because that means all the bars are the same, ie, there is no right and left, they can be installed either way. So the bars don't have to be manufactured in pairs. Once they're installed they need to be kept on that side, but as they're made it doesn't matter. An indexed bar has to be on the correct side, otherwise the index will be in the wrong direction and will result in a different ride height than intended.
Firm Feels bars are made in house, at least according to them. So they're only available from Firm Feel. I run a set of their 1.12" bars in my Challenger, and have for over 40k miles now. They perform great, no issues. Which is why I installed a set of their 1.12" bars in my Duster. That's a 300 lb/in rate, which is a lot. But with Bilstien shocks up front, I can't say that its any stiffer than my g/f's 2013 Mustang with the premium suspension package. I haven't gone to my 18" wheels yet, but its not at all bad on the street. I also run a pretty significant amount of chassis stiffening and poly bushings. I know the B/E body 1.12" bars are NOT zero indexed, but I didn't check the A body bars. Firm Feel uses custom offsets to get the ride height correct. Easiest way to check is to just lay the bar on the ground, if it sits on the flats on both sides its zero indexed. If it sits on a flat and a point, its 30*, and if its somewhere in between, well, its somewhere in between.
As far as the info on torsion bar rates, Mopar performance used to publish all of theirs (see table below) and Firm Feel publishes theirs. There's an equation to determine wheel rates for the torsion bars, I don't have it at the moment but it depends on the length of the LCA from pivot to ball joint, diameter and length of the torsion bar, and the torsion bar's torsional spring constant. That last item, the torsional spring constant, comes from the the metallurgy of the bar itself. For example an aluminum torsion bar would obviously have a very different rate than a steel one. But even among the type of steel used for torsion bars, slight changes in the alloy can result in changes in the spring constant, so bars made by different manufacturers have different rates. If you look a the chart below, and Firm Feels chart for their bars, you see that a Mopar Performance bar for an A body with a 1.09" diameter has a 300 lb/in wheel rate, while it takes a 1.12" diameter Firm Feel bar to get the same 300 lb rate. Its not a HUGE difference, but they are different, and if you're fine tuning your suspension for a certain rate its important. If you're just looking to upgrade to better handling its not as important as any 1" bar would be a big improvement over stock. Firm feels chart is here http://www.firmfeel.com/torsionb_a.htm
All of the OE bars are clocked at 30*, but aftermarket bars can be clocked or indexed as the manufacturer chooses. Most aftermarket bars are much larger in diameter, so there is very little give in the bars. If they were indexed at 30*, you wouldn't be able to get the car DOWN to stock, as the weight of the car doesn't lower the suspension as much. That's the whole point, a larger bar with a higher rate means that the suspension will travel less for a given input. But I suspect a lot of the companies go all the way to a zero index (like the 1" JS bars) because that means all the bars are the same, ie, there is no right and left, they can be installed either way. So the bars don't have to be manufactured in pairs. Once they're installed they need to be kept on that side, but as they're made it doesn't matter. An indexed bar has to be on the correct side, otherwise the index will be in the wrong direction and will result in a different ride height than intended.
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