Trans doesn't go in gear. Now what?! Please Help

[mopowers]

Well, crap! I just got my pile running with the new top end in the 340. I broke the cam in last weekend and everything seemed fine. Today, I buttoned up a couple last things before trying to drive it around the block, went to put it in gear and nothing... It won't go into any gear, or reverse. I did notice it was a couple quarts low, so I filled it up and still nothing. Fluid is bright red and looks and smells brand new.

It's a small block 727 and worked fine several months ago before I replaced the heads, cam and intake. The only other changes I made were a brand new 9.5" Dynamic torque converter and auxiliary trans cooler. I made sure to pour a quart of transmission fluid in the converter before I installed it. I broke the cam in with the trans in Park. Did this damage it? Since the transmission has a Transgo TF2 kit in it, I was under the impression that the trans pump runs in Park. The new trans cooler gets warm, so I'm assuming the pump is working.

Any other ideas??? What could be causing this?? I'm really hoping I haven't damaged my new converter. Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks a lot guys!

 

[AJ/FormS]

Sounds like the TC is bad, or maybe you didnt rev it high enough?

 

[mopowers]

Sounds like the TC is bad, or maybe you didnt rev it high enough?

I sure hope not, considering it cost me $600. How high should I need to rev it to get it to go into gear? I would think I should still be able to feel it click into a gear (rev, d, 2, 1...)

I forgot to mention- when I tried to put it in gear, I had the kickdown disconnected because I need to lengthen one of the rods due to the taller intake/carb combo (one of the last items on the list). Does the trans need a throttle position signal in order to go into gear?

 

[fishy68]

It'll go in gear with the kickdown unhooked. Just don't want to run it that way. If replacing the converter is all you did my guess is it's either a bad converter like A/J mentioned or you didn't get the pump gears aligned correctly and snapped them off when you bolted the trans up. An easy test to see if the converter is aligned to the front pump is to unhook one of the trans cooler lines and fire it up and put it in gear and it should pump fluid out. If it does that it sounds like a bad converter, or possibly one made for the wrong input spline count as 66 and earlier used a 18 spline input shaft

 

[mopowers]

It'll go in gear with the kickdown unhooked. Just don't want to run it that way. If replacing the converter is all you did my guess is it's either a bad converter like A/J mentioned or you didn't get the pump gears aligned correctly and snapped them off when you bolted the trans up.

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it. Is there a way of testing to make sure the pump gears are ok? Like I said, the new auxiliary trans cooler is warm. Wouldn't that mean the pump is working? Should I try disconnecting one of the hoses? The converter seemed to go in just fine. The flexplate lugs were about 3/16" from the flexplate mounting surface.

 

[AJ/FormS]

In reverse,throttle pressure is not used, nor even generated.So the KD mechanism might as well not be there.Line pressure will rise to what ever the pump is capable of. Perhaps 250 psi or more.So if you cant back up, with a little rpm, I would have to say( since the tranny worked before the TC swap) that the new TC is not working.
I guess I would get the rear wheels off the ground, and try reverse again, taking the rpm up to 2 or maybe 2.5 thousand. No drive means tranny out. If your shift kit is a manual shift, then manual-2nd(M2)should work, even without the KD hooked up.So while the rear is still elevated try it. No drive in M2 means tranny out.
I suppose it theoretically could be possible that the L/R strut fell out. So you might want to drop the pan and check this highly unlikely possibility out, before the tranny comes down.But without M2, I wouldnt bother.
If you dont have manual shift capability, then I would check the L/R strut, for sure. Unless you are confident that the band adjustment was fine, before the new TC went in
Its possible for the pump to be making plenty of pressure, and all the tranny guts be perfect,yet the tranny wont drive. The TC has to physically fit both the input shaft and the reaction shaft support, as well.
I dont think the RS supports were ever changed, but there have been at least 3 different input shafts over the years;the early, the late, and the lock-ups. So perhaps the TC was built or supplied wrong.

 

[mopowers]

I'm wondering what could be wrong with a brand new high dollar converter. I sure hope it wasn't anything I did. I guess I'll find out. I'll go ahead and call the converter manufacturer tomorrow and see if they have any ideas.

 

[mopowers]

If you dont have manual shift capability, then I would check the L/R strut, for sure. Unless you are confident that the band adjustment was fine, before the new TC went in
Its possible for the pump to be making plenty of pressure, and all the tranny guts be perfect,yet the tranny wont drive. .

The trans kit does not have manual shift capability, so maybe checking the L/R strut would be worthwhile...

I'm pretty sure the bands were properly adjusted. I didn't touch them during the converter install/cam break-in and they were fine before hand.

The TC has to physically fit both the input shaft and the reaction shaft support, as well

Not sure I understand this. The converter was ordered for a 727, so I assumed the input shaft fit the converter. Would I know this by how it 'clicks' into place and spins during the install? How would I know if the reaction shaft support fit correctly? Everyhting seemed fine when I slid it into place.

 

[fishy68]

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it. Is there a way of testing to make sure the pump gears are ok? Like I said, the new auxiliary trans cooler is warm. Wouldn't that mean the pump is working? Should I try disconnecting one of the hoses? The converter seemed to go in just fine. The flexplate lugs were about 3/16" from the flexplate mounting surface.

The only way to test that the pump gears are ok is to either pull it apart and visually inspect them to test for fluid output. Since checking for fluid output is the easiest I'd pull a cooler line and put it in gear to see if it pumps fluid, even if it feels like the lines are warm.

Not sure I understand this. The converter was ordered for a 727, so I assumed the input shaft fit the converter. Would I know this by how it 'clicks' into place and spins during the install? How would I know if the reaction shaft support fit correctly? Everyhting seemed fine when I slid it into place.

The reaction shaft on all 727's are the same so it's a given it'll connect up but as I mentioned 66 and earlier 727's used a smaller 18 spline input shaft. If that's what you have and they sent you a converter built for a 67 and newer 727 the converter will slip in place just fine but the input shaft won't engage so the car will not move.

 

[mopowers]

The reaction shaft on all 727's are the same so it's a given it'll connect up but as I mentioned 66 and earlier 727's used a smaller 18 spline input shaft. If that's what you have and they sent you a converter built for a 67 and newer 727 the converter will slip in place just fine but the input shaft won't engage so the car will not move.

Would I be able to visually check the old converter to see what splines it has? What's the spline count on the newer 727?

 

[diymirage]

am I reading this right?

the problem is not that the car wont move, it is that you can not shift it into any of the gears correct?

I would disconnect the shifter linkage and see if you can shift it just by pulling the handle on the transmission , see how that feels

 

[AJ/FormS]

Once the TC is out,drained, and sittin snout up, you can shine a light down in there. I have my doubts though that you will be able to see well enough to count the splines. Better it would be to have the examples of the 3 input shafts handy, and fit them.
A tranny shop may be of some help.

 

[mopowers]

am I reading this right?

the problem is not that the car wont move, it is that you can not shift it into any of the gears correct?

I would disconnect the shifter linkage and see if you can shift it just by pulling the handle on the transmission , see how that feels

The problem is that the shifter will move the trans lever, but nothing happens- the transmission won't go into gear.

I planned on getting it up on jack stand tonight and shifting the trans lever by hand to see how it feels. Thanks!

 

[mopowers]

Once the TC is out,drained, and sittin snout up, you can shine a light down in there. I have my doubts though that you will be able to see well enough to count the splines. Better it would be to have the examples of the 3 input shafts handy, and fit them.
A tranny shop may be of some help.

Yeah, I wish I had a couple input shaft to compare with the old converter, but unfortunately, I don't. Would it be worth it to look up the stamping numbers on the side of the machined boss on the trans to see what year it is? I remember seeing a chart somewhere online with stamping numbers of torqueflites and their corresponding production years. Thanks for the help. This whole thing is really frustrating me.

 

[diymirage]

The problem is that the shifter will move the trans lever, but nothing happens- the transmission won't go into gear.

I planned on getting it up on jack stand tonight and shifting the trans lever by hand to see how it feels. Thanks!

gotcha
that's what I thought was going on, but the replies others were giving didn't seem to jive with the way I read your complaint

hopefully it is something simple

 

[mopowers]

So tonight, I plan on making sure the pump is pumping in gear. If that's the case, It's likely that the input shaft splines are the issue.

Since I know the converter is for a 24 spline shaft, I'm going to see if I can count the splines on the old converter (since I know it worked). If not, I guess I've gotta pull the trans. Damn...

 

[AJ/FormS]

"went to put it in gear and nothing... It won't go into any gear, or reverse".
"The problem is that the shifter will move the trans lever, but nothing happens- the transmission won't go into gear."
I think I misunderstood your problem.
I assumed you took down a fully working trans, and had made no changes to it.
When you said "trans doesnt go in gear", I assumed you meant it had no drive.AS in propulsion.I think I may have assumed too much.
Diymirage may be on the right track.
I cant imagine how a manual valve could become disengaged on a Mopar trans with the VB installed.A GM yes. However, if the manual valve has become disengaged, it matches your symptoms better than anything else I put out there,so far.
So after the jackstand/linkage-disconnect test, If something seems amiss, a VB inspection might be in order.

Diymirage, good call.

 

[mopowers]

"went to put it in gear and nothing... It won't go into any gear, or reverse".
"The problem is that the shifter will move the trans lever, but nothing happens- the transmission won't go into gear."
I think I misunderstood your problem.
I assumed you took down a fully working trans, and had made no changes to it.
When you said "trans doesnt go in gear", I assumed you meant it had no drive.AS in propulsion.I think I may have assumed too much.
Diymirage may be on the right track.
I cant imagine how a manual valve could become disengaged on a Mopar trans with the VB installed.A GM yes. However, if the manual valve has become disengaged, it matches your symptoms better than anything else I put out there,so far.
So after the jackstand/linkage-disconnect test, If something seems amiss, a VB inspection might be in order.

Diymirage, good call.

Ok, now I'm confused. I apologize. That first statement was misleading. I did mean the car has no propulsion in any gear. The lever moves fine.

The converter guy thinks I may have an earlier small spline input shaft that isn't engaged by the TC. First I'm going to test the pump. If it's pumping, something's up with the TC. If it's the converter, I may be selling a brand new converter to buy another one with the right splines because shipping this thing across country twice and paying to have it opened up would be silly. I'll report back with findings...

 

[gtsdude]

I have had the manual valve come out while wrestling a trans back in once, it didn't come out all the way but the shift lever on the side of the trans was not in the correct spot and would not go into any gear. Would not hurt to look

 

[diymirage]

AJ, what I thought he was saying didn't mesh with the advise he was given so I read it and reread and ended up posting the question I did

I guess the next question would be, is there a clear "click" as he goes through the gears?
(if not, that would point towards the linkage)

if the click is there, it might be the reverse of this post http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=310198

 

[mopowers]

AJ, what I thought he was saying didn't mesh with the advise he was given so I read it and reread and ended up posting the question I did

I guess the next question would be, is there a clear "click" as he goes through the gears?
(if not, that would point towards the linkage)

if the click is there, it might be the reverse of this post http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=310198

Yes it clicks into gear. It just doesn't move. I checked the old converter. According to the old converter, the trans in fact IS the later 24 spline as is the new converter, so that's good.

I didn't have a chance to fire up the car and check to make sure the trans is pumping in gear. I'll do that tomorrow and get back to ya'll. If the trans is pumping fluid, I have no clue what the deal is if the pump works. I may just light the thing on fire- haha...

 

[fishy68]

If you have verified positively the old converter is a 24 spline my next step would be to see if it's pumping fluid as mentioned earlier. If it is pumping fluid I'd then drop the pan to make sure the manual valve didn't come loose. That's something I haven't seen happen when one is not taken apart but if the shift shaft assy and rooster comb has a lot of slop in it I'd imagine it could happen.

As per your earlier question about checking the numbers on the side of the trans, yes that'd be a good way to identify the trans. Post your number, usually starts with PK, and I'll look it up and see what year it is

One last thing, you mentioned your under the impression the pump circulates in park since you have a Trans-go kit in it. The kit does cause it to circulate some fluid in park but not as much as it does in neutral of any motion gear. If I were checking fluid output I'd still check it in neutral.. JMHO

 

[mopowers]

If you have verified positively the old converter is a 24 spline my next step would be to see if it's pumping fluid as mentioned earlier. If it is pumping fluid I'd then drop the pan to make sure the manual valve didn't come loose. That's something I haven't seen happen when one is not taken apart but if the shift shaft assy and rooster comb has a lot of slop in it I'd imagine it could happen.

As per your earlier question about checking the numbers on the side of the trans, yes that'd be a good way to identify the trans. Post your number, usually starts with PK, and I'll look it up and see what year it is

One last thing, you mentioned your under the impression the pump circulates in park since you have a Trans-go kit in it. The kit does cause it to circulate some fluid in park but not as much as it does in neutral of any motion gear. If I were checking fluid output I'd still check it in neutral.. JMHO

I checked the numbers as well as the old converter and have verified my trans is the later 24 spline unit.

I'm very curious about whether the trans will pump in gear. I'll let you know tomorrow. If it does, I'm dropping the pan to check the manual valve and rooster comb.

Thanks again for the help. This is really frustrating considering I've got a fresh motor I want to put some miles on.

I remember the Trans-go TF-2 kit specifically stating to check the fluid level hot in Park. I wonder why it said that. If I check it in park or neutral, the level seems to be about the same.

 

[fishy68]

My earlier explanation wasn't worded the best but at the same time don't over think this. Whether or not you get the same reading in park and neutral is not an earth shattering issue. Ok lets try again. The TF2 kit does allow it to circulate in park, it's just slower filling the converter than in neutral (the action of filling the converter is the biggest reason the fluid level goes down). If you have it in park and running for a minute or two you will generally get the same reading in park or neutral. If you start it up and put it in neutral the converter will fill in a matter of a few seconds so the level drops faster.

Just thought of another way to check to see if it's circulating. With the engine shut off pull the dipstick and see where the fluid level is then start it and recheck it. It should check way over full with the engine shut off then when you start the engine the level should go down

 

[mopowers]

Just thought of another way to check to see if it's circulating. With the engine shut off pull the dipstick and see where the fluid level is then start it and recheck it. It should check way over full with the engine shut off then when you start the engine the level should go down

That's a good point. I've done that and it certainly seems like it's pumping, but I'll disconnect a trans line tonight and double check for sure. If it is, I guess I'm dropping the pan. Not sure what else it could be, but one thing at a time I guess...