True Heroes Go Quietly

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dudeman said:
Why is everyone so bent on disproving the story? Regardless of whether it is true. We should all be thanking our boys for giving you the right to doubt them and the safety to live in so we can complain about them. I don't know whether Lee served at Iwo or Saipan, but they were both nasty fights. And awards and service dates are public record now. So if you are really that pessimistic about heroes, dig deeper and let us know the truth. And include legitimate references not some rumormill crap.
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The mere fact that Keeshan's DOB is 1927 proves there was no way he was a Private, let alone a Seargent, during WW2.

Its also well known that Rogers was odained in the early 60's, making him a minister far prior to any supposed SEAL work.
 
There are a bunch of actors whom have served.It's a shame the story was not true!
 
The un-embelished truth about Mr Rogers and the Good Captain is more than enough. Both of these fine men contributed more to the general well-being of our nation then I likly ever will. I salute them both.

-LY
 
:bootysha::-D:bootysha:

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Truth is that Many-Many men have done heroic deeds in the service of our country and a lot that didn't get credit. Men and Women that go into service for our country and serve with Pride and Valor deserve our respect. Some have done well after service but even more just didn't want to talk about it. The ones that did well in acting afterwards, I can only say thanks. To the ones that refused to talk about it, Thank You Very Much and God Bless You.
When you are in a situation that others will die, you should stand and (as was said in the old west) Do What Was Necessary. America is full of hero's, but I suspect that most will never get medals.
 
Mel Brooks: Lt in the engineers (WWII) cited for bravery under fire. Rescued two of his men hit by a sniper.

Cmdr Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Ran his DE (destroyer escort) aground during the invasion of southern France to relieve a Ranger unit cut off from the beach. The Navy tried to bust him for endangering his ship. The Army decorated him.

Lt Eddie Albert disobeyed a direct order to return to his LST during the landings at Tarawa, allegedly throwing his radio overboard. He rescued over a hundred wounded Marines floundering in the water. His hearing into possible court martial proceedings in Hawaii were disrupted by several dozen Marines he saved, led by a colonel who allegedly quipped, ...."when the Navy's done screwing around with the LT, the Marines plan on decorating him!!...."

Here are a couple of "cool trivia" items:

Sgt Desmond Doss, Army medic WWII ETO; refusing to carry any sort of weapon due to his Quaker beliefs, Sgt Doss crawled out in an open field in Normandy in late June, treating ALL wounded, irregardless of them being Axis or Allies. Several weeks later, under a flag of truce, a German Captain and two NCO's came forward and presented Doss with the German equivilent of the Silver Star for bravery (he'd lost his dog tags during the battle, one of the Germans he saved had found them) He remains the only US military member ever decorated by the beligerent side. The Army gave him the Medal of Honor

John Glenn was a Marine fighter and fighter-bomber pilot; Name two of his very famous wingmen:
 
I know of three true stories of what some would consider surprising treatment from the other side in WWII. One is from a U.S. Army vet who was with a small group that was separated from his unit during the Battle of the Buldge. They were in a barn surrounded by the Germans and fought to the last round of ammo. He had lost several fingers on one hand and had a head wound and was the lone survivor. After some time he heard the barn door open. A Waffen SS NCO walked in and being out of ammo he figured he was dead. The SS man put down his weapon and bandaged the man's wounds, gave him some water and pain medicine, and left. He was found later in the day by his unit.

There was a B-17 that was badly shot up over Germany that was trying to make it back to England. They had lost two engines, part of the tail section, and had several gaping holes in the fuselage. They had thrown everything they could out of the plane including their defensive armament in the hope of getting back across the channel. While still over France they noticed that a BF-109G had pulled up beside them and was flying just off their wingtip. They thought he was going to finish them off but he just flew beside them all the way to the coast and then saluted and flew off. Both of these pilots survived the war and in the 1990s they were brought together to sign a painting of the incident called "The Gallant Foe". The American pilot, Charlie Brown (no kidding) asked the German pilot, Franz Stigler, whay he did not shoot them down. He said as he closed in on the B-17 from the rear he noticed that the plane was badly shot up and that the tail gunner did not take aim at him so he held his fire and closed in close enough to see the tail gunner covered in blood. He looked the plane over and said he had never seen anything with so much damage keep flying and that he was not going to shoot down an unarmed plane with wounded on board. Anyone that had managed to keep that plane in the air so long deserved to get home.

The most surprising (to us Americans) is the true story of Waffen SS Colonel Jochen Peiper, who became infamous when he took the blame for the Malmedy incident which A) he was not involved in, and B) is still disputed by historians as to whether or not the official massacre story is true, heard that the Italians had arrested a group of Jews and was holding them for deportation. He went to the ranking Italian officer and demanded that the prisoners be released into his custody. They were, and he took them away to another town and released them. The Rabbi that was with this group was so thankful that he appeared as a character witness at Peiper's Malmedy trial after the war.

There is also the event which was accurately depicted in the movie "A Bridge Too Far" when the British in Arnhem went to the Germans to ask for a cease fire to evacuate their wounded. They also asked if the Germans would accept their more seriously wounded men into their hospitals since they did not have the facilities to care for them themselves. The General in charge, Waffen SS General Wilhelm Bittrich, granted the cease fire and did accept the wounded British soldiers into his already overfilled hospitals where the survivors said they were treated well.

While war is full of horror and crimes on both sides, you do find these rare instances of chivalry from both sides.
 
Good stuff there, 2shelbys. I have read numerous books by and about Waffen SS members. Man, did they ever get a bad rap by historians. The SS (Schutzstaffel) began as Hitler's bodyguard unit (Liebstandarte). It was somewhat an outgrowth of the Stabswache (staff guard) and then the Stosstrupp (shock troops). Himmler took charge of the SS very early on. It came under the jurisdiction of Ernst Rohm and his SA (Sturm Abteilung) - the "brown shirts."

The SS grew and, under Himmler's fanatical beliefs, became a somewhat semi-religious, semi-mythological ideal of the "new German" citizen. The SS was put in charge of running the early concentration camps, forcing it to expand. At the time of war with france, the SS fielded three regiments of poorly trained, poorly led, and poorly equipped combat troops. They fought ferociously, but took heavy casualties.

They eventually grew to field numerous motorized infantry divisions and then full panzer divisions. During the war, they were able to recruit members (they were volunteer organizations) from all over Europe as the call was to fight against Soviet Bolshevism and its expansionist plans for all Europe. This strategy garnered huge numbers of recruits and real soldiers from the Whermacht (regular army) to train and lead them. Of course, by that time, most SS soldiers were there to fight communism in Russia and the east and the NAZI propaganda-indoctrination took a back seat.

So, in truth, by the time of Normandy, most of the early fanatical SS were dead or moved on in the organization and the western Allies were facing well-trained, well-lead, well-equipped, battle-hardened and -experienced, soldiers. Relatively few were the fanatical NAZIs of the Hollywood movies.

The Malmedy massacre did occur, but the actual cause is open for debate. Peiper took the fall because he was the overall commander of the unit responsible. The Germans had no facilities for keeping the large number of prisoners that they took during the Ardennes Offensive. Most were simply sent to the rear on supply vehicles with minimal guards. It appears that the "orders" for the Malmedy massacre were misconstrued from various messages on how to deal with prisoners.
 
Check out this hero(ine.) Hedy Lamarr was a very beautiful Hollywood actress in the '30s and '40's. She was born in Austria. Her husband was a Nazi sympathizer (even though he had Jewish ancestry) and arms dealer who was interested in control systems for weapons. Ms. Lamarr was a very smart lady and she learned about control systems from her husband. She divorced him and came to Hollywood and launched a successful acting career.

During WWII she had an idea for secure communications called 'frequency hopping.' A transmitter and receiver would continuously change frequencies simultaneously so conversations could not be intercepted and or jammed by the enemy. She shared her idea with a young inventor and together they were awarded a patent in 1942. Ms. Lamarr also used her popularity to raise $7 million in war bonds during a single appearance. Their invention wasn't developed in time to be used during the war.

After the war, with advances in technology and transistors, 'frequency hopping' became a basic tool for secure military communications. It got it's first real use during the Bay of Pigs invasion. By this time the patent had expired. Today's mobile phone systems use this same technology.

Later she was recognized for her idea. November 9 is Inventors Day, in honor of her birthday. For more details on this heroic lady, google Hedy Lamarr.
 
Real heroes go quietly...Her last days were spent living as a recluse in Orlando, having lost her money and possessions. She died in 2000.
 
FISHBREATH said:
The Malmedy massacre did occur, but the actual cause is open for debate. Peiper took the fall because he was the overall commander of the unit responsible. The Germans had no facilities for keeping the large number of prisoners that they took during the Ardennes Offensive. Most were simply sent to the rear on supply vehicles with minimal guards. It appears that the "orders" for the Malmedy massacre were misconstrued from various messages on how to deal with prisoners.
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It is even further from the official story than that. There is much evidence that it was not a cold-blooded massacre at all. The German version of the story is that one of their NCOs did in fact murder a prisoner with his pistol (everyone agrees that this is how it started). When that happened the ranking American yelled out for the men to remain in formation but it was too late. They began to scatter and run for the woods and that is when the Germans opened fire. If you go through the court transcripts you find testimony from one American survivor and three Belgian civilian witnesses that confirm the German version of events. Their testimony was ignored. Another American officer testified about his capture. His unit was actually taken prisoner by the unit directly under Peiper's command. He testified that he had several civilized, respectful discussions with Peiper and that when Peiper had decided that his units had to retreat on foot (they were out of fuel and almost out of ammo) Peiper promised that he and his men would be released. He had asked Peiper about this because of rumors of executed prisoners and he firgured that since he would be able to get back to his unit quickly and tell them about Peiper's situation and retreat he was a direct threat to the safety of Peiper's unit, which he was. Peiper honored his word and released all the prisoners unharmed in spite of the threat they posed. His testimony was ignored as well.

At the same trials Peiper's men were blamed and convicted for executing prisoners at the Church in Stavelot. This was in spite of the fact that the Pastor of the Church and two civilians who lived beside and across from the Church said they not only never saw any execution, they never saw any dead or wounded Americans at any time during the whole battle.

It came out after the war that many illegal tactics including physical and mental torture were used to secure false confessions from men of Peiper's unit. Many of these signed confessions were in English and were never translated to those who signed them. The Germans who had not been executed quickly were eventually released. It is a real black page in the history of American military justice but the accuracy of the massacre story was never challenged.

As a side note there are several American documents in the National Archives about the situation at this time. Many of the American units in the Ardennes were very inexperienced and when the completely unexpected German assault came, led by Peiper's virtually indestructible King Tigers, there was large scale panic among the American units. There were discussions of how to remedy this and it was suggested by more than one person that rumors of the Germans taking no prisoners and instead executing them would result in the American units fighting to the last man for fear of being executed. There are no documents available that state specifically that this was the origin of the Malmedy massacre story but it is an interesting footnote.
 
goldfish65 said:
Check out this hero(ine.) Hedy Lamarr was a very beautiful Hollywood actress in the '30s and '40's. She was born in Austria. Her husband was a Nazi sympathizer (even though he had Jewish ancestry) and arms dealer who was interested in control systems for weapons. Ms. Lamarr was a very smart lady and she learned about control systems from her husband. She divorced him and came to Hollywood and launched a successful acting career.

During WWII she had an idea for secure communications called 'frequency hopping.' A transmitter and receiver would continuously change frequencies simultaneously so conversations could not be intercepted and or jammed by the enemy. She shared her idea with a young inventor and together they were awarded a patent in 1942. Ms. Lamarr also used her popularity to raise $7 million in war bonds during a single appearance. Their invention wasn't developed in time to be used during the war.

After the war, with advances in technology and transistors, 'frequency hopping' became a basic tool for secure military communications. It got it's first real use during the Bay of Pigs invasion. By this time the patent had expired. Today's mobile phone systems use this same technology.

Later she was recognized for her idea. November 9 is Inventors Day, in honor of her birthday. For more details on this heroic lady, google Hedy Lamarr.
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Wow. I have been studying WWII for over 30 years and I never knew about this.
 
Regardless of the validitiy of the stories of these two men one thing remains both served in the armed forces for the service of there country, allot more than most people can say.
 
I'm pretty sure I said regardless of whether it is true. I do actually care about the truth. Mopar 340 Dave. I just wanted more concrete references. And I haven't ever believed the Mr. Rogers story. I've heard he was a sniper in Nam and a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, do you really need to get personal? It is easy to do that from behind a computer. I thought this is a place for people with a common interest to get together and BS. I think it is cool to disagree and have an argument or discussion, but I don't think we need personal attacks like I don't care about the truth. Especially when you have no idea who I am or what I've done. And I like your GWOT Fag pic, kick ***. Support the troops bro.
BTW, my car doesn't have a slant. It's a porsce engine I stole out of my daughter's bug.
 
OK, stay calm....I was just jokin' around!:axe:

Believe it or not, the wonder nerd over at snopes does one hell of a good job investigating all of this crap.:evil3:
 
ocdart said:
I never knew this about these guys until a friend forwarded this to me today..........



Captain Kangaroo passed away on January 23, 2004 at age 76 , which is odd, because he always looked to be 76. (DOB: 6/27/27 ) His death reminded me of the following story.

Some people have been a bit offended that the actor, Lee Marvin, is buried in a grave alongside 3 and 4-star generals at Arlington National Cemetery His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing else.. Here's a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his time, why the heck does he rate burial with these guys? Well, following is the amazing answer:

I always liked Lee Marvin, but didn't know the extent of his Corps experiences.

In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country in the armed forces often in rear echelon posts where they were carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero.. He won the Navy Cross at Iwo Jima There is only one higher Naval award.. The Medal Of Honor!

If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery.

Dialog from 'The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson': His guest was Lee Marvin. Johnny said, 'Lee, I'll bet a lot of people are unaware that you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima ..and that during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were severely wounded.'

'Yeah, yeah... I got shot square in the bottom and they gave me the Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi. Bad thing about getting shot up on a mountain is guys getting' shot hauling you down. But, Johnny, at Iwo . I served under the bravest man I ever knew... We both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made mine look cheap in comparison. That dumb guy actually stood up on Red beach and directed his troops to move forward and get the hell off the beach. Bullets flying by, with mortar rounds landing everywhere and he stood there as the main target of gunfire so that he could get his men to safety. He did this on more than one occasion because his men's safety was more important than his own life.
That Sergeant and I have been lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me, lying on my belly on the litter and said, 'Where'd they get you Lee?' 'Well Bob... If you make it home before me, tell Mom to sell the outhouse!'
Johnny, I'm not lying, Sergeant Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew.
The Sergeant's name is Bob Keeshan. You and the world know him as Captain Kangaroo.'


On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who passed away) on PBS, gentle and quiet. Mr. Rogers is another of those you would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat-proven in Vietnam with over twenty-five confirmed kills to his name. He wore a long-sleeved sweater on TV, to cover the many tattoos on his forearm and biceps. He was a master in small arms and hand-to-hand combat, able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat

After the war Mr. Rogers became an ordained Presbyterian minister and therefore a pacifist. Vowing to never harm another human and also dedicating the rest of his life to trying to help lead children on the right path in life. He hid away the tattoos and his past life and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm.

America's real heroes don't flaunt what they did; they quietly go about their day-to-day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our respect and the freedoms that we all enjoy.
Look around and see if you can find one of those heroes in your midst.
Often, they are the ones you'd least suspect, but would most like to have on your side if anything ever happened.

Take the time to thank anyone that has fought for our freedom. With encouragement they could be the next Captain Kangaroo or Mr. Rogers.
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This story was just posted in the newsletter from the American Legion post that I belong too.

I don't have the heart to tell them it may not be accurate.

It's a damn good story if you ask me!
 
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