UCA adjustment plates damaged.

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orioncrw

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HELP!
Need some advice. The upper control arm adjustment plates on the body have been hammered flat. No idea why? So I was thinking.
1. If I hammer them back into position would they be strong enough?
2. Do replacements exist?
3. If so. Would the adjustment bolt locate the plates to be re-welded?
Or am I just screwed with a car that can not be aligned.
 
Well, anything can be fixed. Just time and money.

I'm not sure you'll be able to hammer them back into place successfully, they look pretty screwed up. But it's worth a try, and you could always run a weld on the outside of the flange to strengthen them. I don't know of any replacements being made. You might try contacting @whitepunkonnitro or @crackedback, they might have a shock upright or two they could sell you to scavenge the plates off of. The adjustment plate is just spot welded to the shock upright, so you could drill out yours and the replacement. If you were careful to keep everything lined up you could use the camber bolt to align the new plate, plus you'd have a nice bare spot on the upright to line up with the edge of the new plate. Then just tack it in place, remove the camber bolt and plug weld the holes where you drilled it out to remove it.
 
Looks like they were pretty well rusted and someone welded a washer or some other form of buggerment in there. Also very common for the topside of the rail to rust out in those areas. I believe you can buy the whole piece, but the guys mentioned should be able to help you and they're stand up guys.
 
GeorgeH said:
Looks like they were pretty well rusted and someone welded a washer or some other form of buggerment in there. Also very common for the topside of the rail to rust out in those areas. I believe you can buy the whole piece, but the guys mentioned should be able to help you and they're stand up guys.
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Good point about the rust damage. With as messed up as the camber bolt mounts are there's a good chance there's more damage there.
 
I agree it looks like someone did some welding and it's probably o.k. because what i see is the weight is pushing the control arm in so the tab on the outside is no big deal as long as you can get the alignment, no big deal.
 
Is this just on one side? It wouldn't be too much trouble to weld on a 1/4" strip to serve as a "stop" for the alignment cam.
 
I have never had to use it, the weight always pushes in so the outer plate never gets hit with the cam.
 
There are cam tabs on both sides of the eccentric, and if everything is correct the cam eccentric should be in contact with both tabs at the same time. The adjustment isn't from the eccentrics sliding around, its from the bolt being moved by the eccentric. The eccentrics should just rotate, not slide back and forth. Now on these cars at this point in their lives the cam tabs are often bent, so the eccentrics can be sloppy and they will slide a bit. The cam tabs aren't meant to stop the camber bolt from moving around though. They're there to locate the camber bolt so you can get a proper alignment. Once the camber bolt is torqued to 70 ft/lbs like it's supposed to be the camber bolt shouldn't move unless you do something really crazy. And if you do something crazy enough to move the camber bolt while it's properly torqued the tabs aren't going to stop it anyway.

The OP's car doesn't look to have any tab on the outside at all, and not a useful one on the inside. That means turning that camber bolt won't adjust the alignment, the bolt will just spin in place as the eccentric rotates around on the outside. Now maybe the other end (under the nut) has some kind of tab so it will move the bolt back and forth, but if it doesn't you'd have to set the alignment by pushing or pulling the UCA back and forth in the mount, and that's not a good/easy way to set the alignment right. Even it the outer part has tabs still though it'll tend to put an angle on the bolt, so getting the alignment adjusted will be a royal pain.

Sorry, not the best picture, I just grabbed a quick shot over the top of the tire with the wheels still on to show what the tabs should look like. This is my '71 GT. Even the tabs on this car have been pushed out a little, the suspension is just sitting on the car to make it a roller at the moment and I'll true up the cam tabs to the eccentrics better before I set the final alignment. But you get the idea.

IMG_3881.JPG
 
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Thanks for the great info!
The inner portion of the stop seems to be OK but the outer portion is completely flat and pointed towards the tire. As for rust, there is only light surface. I am going to try to use a spare adjustment washer as a die. Pound it back onto position. Then fabricate a doubler and weld that in. If that plan goes to poop. I may just try to salvage a set from a donor and weld those in. In a last resort I guess I could use adjustable upper control arms and make the body side mount fixed by welding the adjustment washers to the body.
Again thanks so much for the info and insight.
 
when the cam bolt is tight the crush keeps it from moving not the tab, you can fab a new one weld it all up if you want, personally I wouldn't wast my time on it.
 
Unless you pull the bolt out to find a washer welded in place where there is no adjustment. I'd still want a look/see.
 
brian6pac said:
when the cam bolt is tight the crush keeps it from moving not the tab, you can fab a new one weld it all up if you want, personally I wouldn't wast my time on it.
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You obviously haven't tried to set the alignment on a car without tabs. No, the tabs aren't structural in the suspension, I already said that, but setting the alignment without them is a painful and annoying process.

GeorgeH said:
Unless you pull the bolt out to find a washer welded in place where there is no adjustment. I'd still want a look/see.
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Exactly. And I wouldn't want to weld the eccentrics in place and use adjustable control arms. It would work, but that's completely shade tree. If you can weld you can fix it right. I'd be PISSED if I found the eccentrics welded to the mounts on a car I was trying to align, even if it could be adjusted with the UCA. Just the lazy, shortcut way to do it.
 
I worked in a alignment shop the specialized in all chassis work back in the 70's and probably did 1000's of alignments, class A motor-homes, set up race cars to have 0 bumpsteer, the old fords and Lincolns the frames would sag and you couldn't get camber so we would chain down both frame rails to the rack and jack it up in the middle with a 50 ton bottle jack to bend the frame rails back out. I aligned the mopars with the weight on the wheels, just jacked it up on the k-member so I could get over the tire and as soon as I loosen the cam nut the weight pushes it in, so when the cam gets turned it pushes on the inner tab to move the control arm out, for me I never really use the outer tab to move the control arm, the weight does that.
 
I'm suddenly reminded that I bought my own alignment equipment so that I'd never have to go to an alignment shop again.

Whatever. If putting the bubble in the middle is all you care about, carry on.
 
Nobody cares if you are a 1/2 bubble off.

I have my own equipment too and my bubble always in the middle, where else would you put it.
 
If the shop is using a bubble , I go somewhere else. I like all the info including SAI on the sheet.
 
brian6pac said:
Nobody cares if you are a 1/2 bubble off.

I have my own equipment too and my bubble always in the middle, where else would you put it.
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My point was that the job of an alignment tech is to get as many jobs done in a day as possible. There are more techs out there that would ruin your suspension to "put the bubble in the middle" if it saves them 20 minutes than there are that would take the extra time to do the job right, because to 90% of them the only thing that matters is the final number and not what you had to do to get there. It's probably why the OP's car is screwed up to begin with. I stopped going to alignment shops because I've only met one tech in the last 10 years that actually knew why the factory specs in the computer for these cars are garbage. Yeah, maybe those "techs" have done a 1,000 alignments, but if they'd put a factory alignment for bias ply's on a car with radials they've got no business turning wrenches. Sure, they work in an alignment shop, but the majority of them still don't understand how suspension actually works. They're just "putting the bubble in the middle" (or the computer in the green) and punching the clock.

There's one way to fix the OP's car properly, and so far neither of the two guys that worked in alignment shops would bother to do it the right way. Just put the bubble in the middle and leave the hatchet job for somebody else to deal with later.

So, like I said, if that's all you care about, carry on.

GeorgeH said:
If the shop is using a bubble , I go somewhere else. I like all the info including SAI on the sheet.
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I wouldn't. If you know how to use a bubble gauge you can put the suspension in the same place. It's just geometry, nothing fancy about it.

The problem is that most of the shops with all the fancy gear have their computers programmed with the original factory specs, and in most places they won't deviate from those factory specs for liability reasons. Never mind that the factory specs for these cars are for bias ply's and are completely incorrect for use with radial tires.
 
Alignment specs, radial tire, bias tire, it really makes no difference through it all in the trash, if you are autocrossing you set the alignment with a temp tape across the tread, if the tire is to hot on the outside go more neg on the camber and so on, give the tire what it wants and through the spec book out the window.
 
There are still three good flanges in there. They have nothing to do with the alignment except to make it a tiny bit faster or easier to dial in very small amounts of correction. I could do a perfect alignment on that car with all 4 missing.It would just take a bit longer. I don't see a big deal
 
Just a quick update. I sourced replacement tab plates from wildcat in Oregon. Drilled off my old plates. Cleaned up the surface rust that was there. Then welded on the new replacement plates. I made sure to align the slots up so there should be no issues when it's time to align. Thank you all for the insight and guidance on this repair. The rest of the front suspension assembly went without a hitch except for the new sway bar. Still working with PST on that one!
 
orioncrw said:
Just a quick update. I sourced replacement tab plates from wildcat in Oregon. Drilled off my old plates. Cleaned up the surface rust that was there. Then welded on the new replacement plates. I made sure to align the slots up so there should be no issues when it's time to align. Thank you all for the insight and guidance on this repair. The rest of the front suspension assembly went without a hitch except for the new sway bar. Still working with PST on that one!
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Strong work! :thumbsup:
 
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