Update on total engine timing

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MOPAROFFICIAL said:
He also mentioned digital MSD. So does that have it's own advance curve kind of like fi injection where you lock the distributor out and it controls the timing curve on its own with the user setting the initial in the computer..? I never run a digital MSD
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In my opinion. We all may be guilty of it but describing a distributor as being "locked" is probably not enough information on it's own. In this case it sounds like he may have a programmable ignition with a locked distributor. I'm not positive. Maybe the op can give us more details. But it is a perfect example of how describing a distributor as "locked" may not be enough information. I have heard of distributors with a functioning mechanical advance and a lock plate in place of the vac advance refered to as a "locked" distributor. I have heard of distributors having a locked mechanical advance and a functional vac advance also be described as " locked".
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
He also mentioned digital MSD. So does that have it's own advance curve kind of like fi injection where you lock the distributor out and it controls the timing curve on its own with the user setting the initial in the computer..? I never run a digital MSD
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Only the digital 6 and 7 boxes that are programmable.

No analog boxes have that, and not all the digital boxes are programmable
 
92b said:
In my opinion. We all may be guilty of it but describing a distributor as being "locked" is probably not enough information on it's own. In this case it sounds like he may have a programmable ignition with a locked distributor. I'm not positive. Maybe the op can give us more details. But it is a perfect example of how describing a distributor as "locked" may not be enough information. I have head distributors with functioning mechanical advance and a lock plate in place of the vac advance refered to as a "locked" distributor. I have heard of distributors having a locked mechanical advance and a functional vac advance which may also be described as " locked".
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Exactly. People need to use the same terminology or no one knows what’s going on.

I don’t know anyone who actually does distributor work that uses locked out the way the OP is.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Exactly. People need to use the same terminology or no one knows what’s going on.

I don’t know anyone who actually does distributor work that uses locked out the way the OP is.
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It sounds like (can't confirm) it is similar to a hemi 6 box or a ls 6 box or how some fuel injection companies do their timing.
 
I will be using an MSD 6AL-2 programmable on my w2 twin turbo deal. With a locked out MSD billet distributor. You have to develop a map on a PC or smartphone and send it to the box. To “lock out” the timing every number in map (all rows and all columns) would be the same. To me that’s different than just saying the distributor is locked out. I agree we need way more information, as always.


https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_boxes/street_and_strip/parts/6530
 
TT5.9mag said:
I will be using an MSD 6AL-2 programmable on my w2 twin turbo deal. With a locked out MSD billet distributor. You have to develop a map on a PC or smartphone and send it to the box. To “lock out” the timing every number in map (all rows and all columns) would be the same. To me that’s different than just saying the distributor is locked out. I agree we need way more information, as always.
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I need to look up that box and see what it is capable of doing.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I will be using an MSD 6AL-2 programmable on my w2 twin turbo deal. With a locked out MSD billet distributor. You have to develop a map on a PC or smartphone and send it to the box. To “lock out” the timing every number in map (all rows and all columns) would be the same. To me that’s different than just saying the distributor is locked out. I agree we need way more information, as always.


https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_boxes/street_and_strip/parts/6530
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I wonder if you did enter the same number in all the boxes if you would still see a curve with the timing light.
 
92b said:
I wonder if you did enter the same number in all the boxes if you would still see a curve with the timing light.
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I have not seen a slew rate test done with this box. I have it and the distributor ready to go on the engine, maybe I’ll send it to @Newbomb Turk to test if he’d be willing.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I edited my post to add a link. Click it.
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Does it use the pick up in the distributor as the trigger? Or is the distributor just used for the cap and rotor and trigger off something else. I guess I could just click on the link. Feel like I'm hijacking.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I will be using an MSD 6AL-2 programmable on my w2 twin turbo deal. With a locked out MSD billet distributor. You have to develop a map on a PC or smartphone and send it to the box. To “lock out” the timing every number in map (all rows and all columns) would be the same. To me that’s different than just saying the distributor is locked out. I agree we need way more information, as always.


https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_boxes/street_and_strip/parts/6530
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Where's the Falcon fit in in all this?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Where's the Falcon fit in in all this?
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I haven’t worked on the Falcon in a while, I had to build an oil pan and when I tried to weld the original pan, the aluminum turned the dust on the welding table. It was very porous and poor quality so now I have to build the whole pan. It was a little disheartening so I stopped working on it. My girlfriend just recently told me I need to get back on it though.
 
92b said:
Does it use the pick up in the distributor as the trigger? Or is the distributor just used for the cap and rotor and trigger off something else. I guess I could just click on the link. Feel like I'm hijacking.
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It’s just an ignition box. It still needs a trigger. Wether you use a crank trigger or the MSD module, or points or whatever.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I haven’t worked on the Falcon in a while, I had to build an oil pan and when I tried to weld the original pan, the aluminum turned the dust on the welding table. It was very porous and poor quality so now I have to build the whole pan. It was a little disheartening so I stopped working on it. My girlfriend just recently told me I need to get back on it though.
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She's right. Chop chop, Hop Sing.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Why would you test slew rate on the engine?
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You would be testing everything as the engine will see it. Not just slew rate. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying testing on the distributor machine isn't a valuable way to test the system but it may not the same as with the components in the engine that drive the distributor or the actual power that is supplied from the vehicle to the ignition system. It's sort of like testing the engine on the dyno ( a valuable tool) and then putting the engine in the car and testing it at the track. I guess it could be argued to do both.
 
92b said:
You would be testing everything as the engine will see it. Not just slew rate. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying testing on the distributor machine isn't a valuable way to test the system but it may not the same as with the components in the engine that drive the distributor or the actual power that is supplied from the vehicle to the ignition system. It's sort of like testing the engine on the dyno ( a valuable tool) and then putting the engine in the car and testing it at the track. I guess it could be argued to do both.
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I would think if you test the complete ignition system; distributor, coil, box, all together on the distributor machine as it will be run in the car you’ve basically covered all the necessary bases and eliminated the important variables. If a guy can’t put a clean 12v signal to his ignition he should be playing with LEGO’s.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I would think if you test the complete ignition system; distributor, coil, box, all together on the distributor machine as it will be run in the car you’ve basically covered all the necessary bases and eliminated the important variables. If a guy can’t put a clean 12v signal to his ignition he should be playing with LEGO’s.
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Really, we are just playing with expensive Legos. I should put the distributor in the machine that I just tested on the dyno and see if it has the same amount of retard. It should. Not enough hours in the day.
 
92b said:
Really, we are just playing with expensive Legos. I should put the distributor in the machine that I just tested on the dyno and see if it has the same amount of retard. It should. Not enough hours in the day.
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That’s a fact
 
TT5.9mag said:
I would think if you test the complete ignition system; distributor, coil, box, all together on the distributor machine as it will be run in the car you’ve basically covered all the necessary bases and eliminated the important variables. If a guy can’t put a clean 12v signal to his ignition he should be playing with LEGO’s.
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Took time today to test that distributor in the video on the distributor machine today. Looks like the results from the engine and distributor machine are within a couple of degrees. I saw about 8 on the engine and 6 on the distributor machine.
20250607_215442.jpg
 
TT5.9mag said:
Wait….what? If it’s locked, it’s 34 from idle to infinity and everything in between.
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Yes and No. If he is running an MSD Grid the distributor will be locked at your desired timing event and the grid will imitate the timing curve to your programing.
 

Illahe said:
Yes and No. If he is running an MSD Grid the distributor will be locked at your desired timing event and the grid will imitate the timing curve to your programing.
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I’m well aware of how the MSD grid works. Same as the digital6 programmable that I use. As well as any other computer controlled timing setup that uses a distributor where the distributor has to be locked, and timing sync set at some arbitrary number, then the ecu runs its map. The problem was he only said “distributor is locked out” and left out a bunch of other useful information.
 
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