Upper control arm install issue

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Muswagon

Muswagon

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You guys sick of me yet?

New upper control arms with the bushings already installed, there are issues. They are Right Stuff, which when I opened the Right Stuff box, everything was CPP which I made an audible 'uh oh' as I have heard issues.

First, with the bushings fully seated as they come, the drivers side actually would be impossible to install. I used my ball joint press to move the bushing about an 1/8th of an inch back to where the bushings are centered to the body mounting.

Second, the bushings are TIGHT to the body. Like really tight. I have hammered in with a rubber mallet and half way in you cannot even move the arm. How does this system work? Is the arm articulating on the cam bolt, or is the movement of the arm limited to the flex of the bushings like on some old idler arm designs?

Anyway, I should clean up the mounting 'tabs' on the body, I got ahead of myself trying to install now that all of my parts are here for brakes and suspension. That may open up some room maybe.

The bushings are stock style

Any tips would be appreciated.

This is what I bought; No one local had large ball joint uppers, and these came with new bushings and ball joints so said what the heck

Right Stuff Detailing UCA6076 Right Stuff Detailing Control Arms | Summit Racing
 
The mounting points on the frame usually need to be opened up when installing new parts.Meaning it's time to break out the hammer and drift to bend the frame mounts open a bit more. Normal practice.These over the years get bent in with wheel alignments, over tightening,etc.
 
Ok cool, I have done that in the past with new leafs and bushings on my old 73 Mach 1, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something before I start beating on it. Appreciate the quick response.
 
Muswagon said:
You guys sick of me yet?

New upper control arms with the bushings already installed, there are issues. They are Right Stuff, which when I opened the Right Stuff box, everything was CPP which I made an audible 'uh oh' as I have heard issues.

First, with the bushings fully seated as they come, the drivers side actually would be impossible to install. I used my ball joint press to move the bushing about an 1/8th of an inch back to where the bushings are centered to the body mounting.

Second, the bushings are TIGHT to the body. Like really tight. I have hammered in with a rubber mallet and half way in you cannot even move the arm. How does this system work? Is the arm articulating on the cam bolt, or is the movement of the arm limited to the flex of the bushings like on some old idler arm designs?

Anyway, I should clean up the mounting 'tabs' on the body, I got ahead of myself trying to install now that all of my parts are here for brakes and suspension. That may open up some room maybe.

The bushings are stock style

Any tips would be appreciated.

This is what I bought; No one local had large ball joint uppers, and these came with new bushings and ball joints so said what the heck

Right Stuff Detailing UCA6076 Right Stuff Detailing Control Arms | Summit Racing
Click to expand...
Clean then grease.
Hotchkis Sport Suspension Super Grease Parts & Accessories | Summit Racing
 
Do you guys grease the cam bolts as well? Again still trying to figure out where the articulation is, the bolt in sleeve or the rubber bushing itself. Worst case I will put anti seize on the cam bolt, 3 came off great on the old arms and one was rusted/seized which was a biznitch
 
The rubber bushing does all the work. The metal parts do not move.
Yes, I lube the cam bolt to keep rust away.I like to use marine wheel bearing grease because it is water resistant.
 
A length of threaded rod and a couple nuts / washers can help to spread the bracket mounts if needed.
 
Hey Muswagon, does this look like what you were dealing with? Just installed Moog offset upper control arm bushings and there is definitely a clearance issue trying to get these back into the frame bracket. Sounds like the aswer here is to try to talk the bracket into opening up a bit... is that right?

PXL_20220522_212626166.jpg
 
Mine was the opposite, the inside bushing was the issue where it overshot the inner pocket bracket. I used my ball joint press and backed it off a bit on both control arms and it sucked all back together when I torqued them down
 
That looks more like the UCA got spread apart pressing the old bushings out
 
72bluNblu said:
That looks more like the UCA got spread apart pressing the old bushings out
Click to expand...
Hmm, thanks for the thought '72 but the extract process was pretty clean and did not result in torquing the UCA in any way. It looks structurally intact and lines up fine, at least to the naked eye....
 
Muswagon said:
Mine was the opposite, the inside bushing was the issue where it overshot the inner pocket bracket. I used my ball joint press and backed it off a bit on both control arms and it sucked all back together when I torqued them down
Click to expand...
Thanks Muswagon. So there was enough give in the bracket to push it out a 1/16 of an inch or so?
 
JM Ferat said:
Hmm, thanks for the thought '72 but the extract process was pretty clean and did not result in torquing the UCA in any way. It looks structurally intact and lines up fine, at least to the naked eye....
Click to expand...
The real test will come when you take it in for a alingment.
 
It’s not uncommon at all to have to “adjust” the outer mounting ears for the UCA’s. They tend to get drawn in when the camber bolts are torqued so when you install UCA’s with brand new fat bushings they usually need to be spread a little bit. My comment was based more on the distance at the inner ends of the bushings, rather than the outers. The inner part of the UCA mount doesn’t usually move, since it’s more heavily reinforced by the shock tower structure.

You have a large gap there, and that’s not nearly as common.
 
try not to get grease on the rubber bushings...
pry and fit
put cam bolts in but do not do up tight
put it onto the wheels so the suspension and you new bushings sit at ride height
set ride height at the adjusters
then do up cam bolts for the top arms tight

do the same for the bottom as well do not do them up tight with suspension at full droop

then do all adjustments for camber castor etc with the wieght of the car on the wheels

if you don't do this you rip the guts out of every new bush before you even turn a wheel.

the full suspension travel is catered for in bush flex. the bushes are clamped to the frame. The arm, in both cases just twists the rubber... arm movement is not catered for by anything involving metal on metal rotation bolt and bush centre tight to chassis for both upper and lowers and steering idler

this is for standard rubber bushes... everything changes if you have urothane or delrin or nylon....

Dave
 
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72bluNblu said:
It’s not uncommon at all to have to “adjust” the outer mounting ears for the UCA’s. They tend to get drawn in when the camber bolts are torqued so when you install UCA’s with brand new fat bushings they usually need to be spread a little bit. My comment was based more on the distance at the inner ends of the bushings, rather than the outers. The inner part of the UCA mount doesn’t usually move, since it’s more heavily reinforced by the shock tower structure.

You have a large gap there, and that’s not nearly as common.
Click to expand...
Yep, I get it. The pic I took was with one side sitting in plumb so if both brackets are tweaked, the gap would only be half that size on either side. Either way, I think I know what to do here. thanks for the help.
 
Dave999 said:
try not to get grease on the rubber bushings...
pry and fit
put cam bolts in but do not do up tight
put it onto the wheels so the suspension and you new bushings sit at ride height
set ride height at the adjusters
then do up cam bolts for the top arms tight

do the same for the bottom as well do not do them up tight with suspension at full droop

then do all adjustments for camber castor etc with the wieght of the car on the wheels

if you don't do this you rip the guts out of every new bush before you even turn a wheel.

the full suspension travel is catered for in bush flex. the bushes are clamped to the frame. The arm, in both cases just twists the rubber... arm movement is not catered for by anything involving metal on metal rotation bolt and bush centre tight to chassis for both upper and lowers and steering idler

this is for standard rubber bushes... everything changes if you have urothane or delrin or nylon....

Dave
Click to expand...
Thanks for this Dave, appreciate it...
 
FWIW, You might consider giving the bracket attachment areas a thorough exam. They are notorious for rust out.

upload_2022-5-23_7-24-30.png
 
Ok, the good news is that I was able to get the passenger side done with some mininal effort on the bracket ....
PXL_20220523_193853896.jpg



The bad news is (isn't there always bad news), two of the large ferrules they gave me must have been part of a bad batch as the the inner diameter is not large enough for the cam bolt to fit through. The two other large ferrules that I put on passenger side worked fine as do all of the smaller inside ferrules. I called Moog and they won't ship me out two new ferrules and seems like a waste to spend $50 on a whole new set, most of which I won't use. Does anybody have these lying around in a box that they could part with??


PXL_20220523_184507756.jpg
 
How far off is it? Can you drill/ream the washer out a bit and clear it?

This is just Moog lately, their QC sucks. They've literally become my last choice for everything that they make. It's a shame no one else makes the offset UCA bushings.
 
JM Ferat said:
Hmm, thanks for the thought '72 but the extract process was pretty clean and did not result in torquing the UCA in any way. It looks structurally intact and lines up fine, at least to the naked eye....
Click to expand...
Well "SOMETHING" did it.
 
JM Ferat said:
Ok, the good news is that I was able to get the passenger side done with some mininal effort on the bracket ....
View attachment 1715932116


The bad news is (isn't there always bad news), two of the large ferrules they gave me must have been part of a bad batch as the the inner diameter is not large enough for the cam bolt to fit through. The two other large ferrules that I put on passenger side worked fine as do all of the smaller inside ferrules. I called Moog and they won't ship me out two new ferrules and seems like a waste to spend $50 on a whole new set, most of which I won't use. Does anybody have these lying around in a box that they could part with??


View attachment 1715932117
Click to expand...
Just open them up slightly with a drill bit.
 
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