Using lead to fill trim holes

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Golden Scamp

Golden Scamp

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My main concern after attempting for the first time is: Can holes in body be lead-filled without removing all of the panels and laying them flat? I don’t own a welder and found lead to be the most economical alternative, but after countersinking the holes and tinning them, my lead all runs through the hole and out the back. These are the holes for the vinyl top and belt trim I am not reusing. I’m afraid I am going to have to remove the fenders and doors, and I can’t even guess about the quarters. Does this sound right to anyone, and what do I use to back the hole to keep the lead in it? Thanks
 
A real challenge. Getting the lead soft enough to spread but not so thin it will pour through. The old school guys use a trowel method or wood blocks. There should be some good vids on You Tube.... You basically scoop up a pile of semi molten lead and wipe it on. You may have to experiment a lot with cooling time on the trowel etc...
 
It’s definitely going to take some practice. But it can be done on a vertical surface? I’m trying to get them all filled before I prime the car. A little nervous about the holes that lead into the interior, last thing I need is to burn down my car with an fire started by hot lead dropping down into somewhere unseen.
 
I saw a video of Jesse James trying vertical lead work somewhere I'm pretty sure. You can see the lead not really shiny but but just soft enough you can mash it around. If you can have somebody hold a spoon or shield behind the hole that would be great....
 
I was thinking this would be so much better with 2 more hands. Gotta find a day that it’s under 100 and not raining, not been easy lately. I’ll try again tonight I think.
 
Clean around the holes on the backside and fiberglass mat to waterproof. Then bondo the topside. This will be easy and last a long time!
 
I've done it before but it was a long time ago (like 30 years). I don't know how accurate my recollection is but I seem to remember trying to get the heat correct on the panels to control the flow of the lead being one of the key factors. Too hot and the lead would run, too cool and you wouldn't get adhesion. If I remember, I was using 90/10. Make sure you have your tray of wax handy for your wood paddle.
 
The panel needs to be VERY clean and prepped with lead flux. You should get the panel evenly heated, this will help prevent too much warping. Lead melts at around 750* depending on the tin content. You'll want to be able to work the lead on the panel, too cold and you'll have a blob that will fall off. It was used in the older cars, a production line slather job. You have to get a feel for it so practice on some old steel. I used to work for Verizon, we had lead sheath cable and used lead sleeves to repair damaged sections of cable. Bin thar dun thet!
 
I have never heard of lead to fill holes. Filling small imperfections and dents and seams, yes. Holes, no.
 
Weld them up, grind the welds smooth. Use the lead instead of putty to fill minor imperfections if you want to.
 
Check out Bill Hines lead work,google it. He is as good as they get ,with lead.. Personally,welding is the easiest ,quickest way done...
 
I bought the kit from Eastwood and think I am going to use the lead on the top side where I can be sure it will stick. Leaning toward bondo on the quarters, fenders, doors. And yes, using a propane torch has been a challenge getting the heat right. Good thing I went for an extra couple of sticks of lead just in case. And FYI, my dog had a good time trying to eat the wax that comes with the kit, Keep it somewhere safe or you will be picking dirt and grass out of it once you get it off the lawn.
 
Just keep in mind that it's really easy to create more damage than positive progress when you're working with the lead. Heat can cause a lot of distortion. It's important to prepare the surface the very best you can before you start. If you don't you may find that you will be putting the heat on your panels much longer as you try to get the tinning and lead to stick. - And the longer that heat is there, the higher the probability you'll create distortion.

It's a lot like welding on a patch panel. CONTROL YOUR HEAT!! I hope you're successful but be careful.

'Back in the day' before the hazards of working with asbestos were known, I used to use a product made from it that was in a wet paste form. You'd apply it to the areas around where you were using a lot of heat so it would absorb the heat like a heat sink. It did help prevent distortion. I don't know if a safe alternative is sold these days.
 
1967 'cuda said:

'Back in the day' before the hazards of working with asbestos were known, I used to use a product made from it that was in a wet paste form. You'd apply it to the areas around where you were using a lot of heat so it would absorb the heat like a heat sink. It did help prevent distortion. I don't know if a safe alternative is sold these days.
Click to expand...

Eastwood makes a product that you wet and stick around the area your heating, never used it but probably going to give it a try.
 
1fine69 said:
Clean around the holes on the backside and fiberglass mat to waterproof. Then bondo the topside. This will be easy and last a long time!
Click to expand...

Fiberglass and metal do not mix. Bondo absorbs water if not completely sealed, and sometimes even then. This is a recipe for a giant rust hole. Maybe not for a few years, but this is not a permanent fix.

Fiberglass used to repair metal or bondo used to fill holes are shortcuts. It's not the right way to do it, it's not a permanent way to do it, and eventually it will cause even more work than there was to begin with.



Golden Scamp said:
It’s definitely going to take some practice. But it can be done on a vertical surface? I’m trying to get them all filled before I prime the car. A little nervous about the holes that lead into the interior, last thing I need is to burn down my car with an fire started by hot lead dropping down into somewhere unseen.
Click to expand...

Lead can be used to fill small holes. It would be a heck of a lot easier if it were laying flat, but it can be done vertically. But if you're not a skilled lead slinger, it is going to take a lot of practice to get it done.

The other problem that you're going to have is that once you're done applying the lead and shaving it down with a body file (don't sand lead!), there won't be much lead left on the top side because you're filling a hole on a flat panel, or worse, on a body line. That can cause adhesion problems, and may cause the paint to crack or the lead to lose it's bond with the metal.

By far the easiest way to do this would be to borrow/rent or even buy a small 110 MIG welder, just get one with an gas set-up so you don't have to use flux core rod. The amount of practice/time it will take to you to be able to do a good job welding up the holes in the sheet metal will far less than what it will take to get the lead work done.

Also- are we just talking the holes at either end of each trim piece for the screws? Or the holes left behind by all of the studs? The studs were spot welded to the body, if you remove them with a grinder and cut off wheel they don't leave holes. The studs only leave holes if they're pulled off, because then they take the base metal with them. I have to do this repair on one side of my EL5 GT because some jerk pulled off all the studs. When I converted my Duster over to a '71 Dart front end I used a grinder to remove the trim studs, no problemo, no holes except for the one at either end for the screws.
 
I have managed to do this recently for rust pin hole repair on a vertical window channel. .
If I can, anyone can.
Metal must be clean, as stated.
There is a fine line between runny and soft enough to push into the area.
It's tricky.
If you don't have too much to do, this is economical.
It is what I used.
http://hardwaredistributors.com/solder-50-50-solid-wire.html?gclid=CL2HmvLPkMcCFdgUgQodBFsMTA
You can get it at your local ace.
Even if you weld it, like I did in some areas, lead could still be used.
Use a P100 HEPA to finish.
Lead= bad stuff.
http://www.pksafety.com/parfil.html?gclid=CJD8kcbQkMcCFUgWHwodWvIDKw
 
I am filling all of the holes left from removing vinyl top trim and the body trim along the Dart’s belt line, the kind that runs over the tops of the wheel openings and enters and exits pretty much right at the top of the bumpers. Wheel lip holes are going to be crazy to file down with the contours. I just need a few days where it’s not 90% humidity and 100 degrees here.
 
As 72bluNblu suggested, buy a welder . It's impossible to build a 40+ year old car without one.
 
Went much better today. Taught myself a few tricks, like if the blob of lead falls off the hole, just lube the paddle up and scoop up the lead. Hold it under the hole on the paddle and heat it there, spreading it once it’s hot. Also backed the holes with 600 degree Ducting tape from 3M on the back of duct tape and put it on the back side to clean the inside up too. I think starting with the body panels was a mistake for a novice as the holes are bigger and vertical, so I would recommend getting the hang of it first before tackling these. Thanks to everyone for your advise with this. I’ll post some pictures when I’m through.
 
Just remember to post about the failures too. It's always a lot more educational and sometimes more entertaining. If all we ever read were stories about how well things went, nobody would ever learn anything. Good luck!
 
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