Valve guide seals LA 318 ?

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swingn340

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I have a 69 318 w/stock heads. Well my question is it has stock heads 318 with double valve springs. Im assuming not original. The umbrella seals are gone most likely the junk I found in the oil pickup. I bought a felpro gasket set was rebuilding my heads and the seals won't work with the double springs. Looks like the head wasn't machined for any other seal type and the three seals that were left are hard as a rock. Anyone have a part number for an umbrella seals small enough for double valve springs. Thank you
 
I just changed to the double springs, found out more info than what I wanted to know but thanks to some members here I will end up with a better install. The umbrellas don't work with dual springs.

heres my thread

Valve Springs and Seals Info?
 
I will start with a question..... do you know the part number and brand of the springs you have?
If not...... how about a pic and some measurements?

Have the heads been machined to facilitate the use of dual springs?
Maybe a pic of the heads in that area with the spring off?
 
exactly what prh said
were the seats cut for dual springs
the inner step?
I like dual springs for a BM due to the short installed height
why start a new thread
what did you end up with for retainers
how about part numbers on springs and seals etc
geeeez
 
Wyrmrider said:
exactly what prh said
were the seats cut for dual springs
the inner step?
I like dual springs for a BM due to the short installed height
why start a new thread
what did you end up with for retainers
how about part numbers on springs and seals etc
geeeez
Click to expand...
This engine came out of a car i bought years ago ran good real good, pulled all the running gear and parted the rest. Just tore down the engine and was going to do a cheap rebuild. Clean it hone it rods mains and rings gaskets and seals. I have no idea what valve springs were used but it does have a crane cam in it. So could have been a kit .? Like I said this thing ran fine for years. And the valve guides have not been machined for different seals. I don't know if the 340 had a double spring and if so would the same seal work on my 318 head?
 
I just bet the double springs you see are a single spring with a flat wound damper.
 
swingn340 said:
No two springs nothing flat in mine
Click to expand...

ok, then you're gonna need to remove a set of springs and measure the outside diameter of the guide and get a seal that's appropriate for the size.
 
What RRR just said--
340s no SBM came with Dual Counterwound interference fit springs or dual with a dampner between the coils
The hp cams had a red single spring with a dampner
a good spring
and cheap but will not take much lift
I usually use a dual spring and set it up tall if a mild cam
the installed height of a SBM is short- so are Pontiacs and many other motors
BBC and BBM springs have wide availability and choices
Isky 6006 work, lots of choices
Looks like I get to learn beehives, back when they were introduced I let my customers be guinea pigs and do not really remember what they made work (or not work)
stem seals should be the same
but umbrella seals do not work with the real dual springs and you have to cut the spring seats with very few "drop in" exceptions- which are clearly stated tlll you tear down an unknown build
that raised step is what locates the single spring
do not count a flat dampner as a spring
 
See if you can find a PN on the cam. Or measure lifter lift. The thought is to see if you could use a heavy single spring with that cam and stock seals.
Otherwise, you have to cut the OD of the guide boss as said, with a tool to fit smaller seals.
 
awaiting pics
glad they are dual springs

if you have them apart you could post free length and id and od of each
and the installed heights of inner and outer (with that step)
and if you know someone with a spring checker-...
me I'd check the springs anyway
and as nm said what's your valve lift or cam lobe lift
any chance that hard umbrella has a number on it
the only way I can see to the builder using an umbrella would have been for him to use big od springs- so get the calipers out and do some measurements
with dual springs someone had to do something special
and I hope had a reason to do so
Me I get set in my ways and just went through a checklist on every build whether a race car or not- force of habit I guess
 
The cam that's in it is an old crane fireball was thinking the springs could be crane also if he used a kit. I had this same set up in a 318 back in the 80s ran good. Found it funny the only difference between the two engines is the double valve springs. So yes I could use the single spring. My first 318 had totally stock heads just a valve job. With the same cam. I can't remember the lift or duration and having trouble finding the specs on the web
 
I've come to the conclusion that however built this just made it work. They make what fel pro calls a positive seal that just fits snug over the stock valve boss and that's what he used but the inner spring rides on it. So you know how long that would last. Like all but 4 ended up in my pickup tube. So I just bought new springs.
 
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