Valve Spring Installed Height

[middleagecrisis]

My local machinist, who I trust greatly, just told me the J-Heads I dropped off aren't going to work with the solid lifter cam I wanted to run. He said I would need an installed spring height of ~1.800" and would need a +.100 inch valves. He didn't want to risk cutting the spring pads (looks like they were previously cut) and hit water. I had two solid cams to choose from, one .530" max lift, the other .588" max lift (1.5 ratio on both). I know that the smaller (.530") lift cam can't be all that more radical than what guys ran back in the old days. How did guys get away with running big solid cams back in the day, or even now, without using extra-long valves? These are the stock 2.02/1.60 valves with the 4-groove keepers.

 

[PRH]

Sbc 5.010” valves and Comp tool steel retainers will get you to 1.800”.

35 years ago I used the same valve arrangement with Comp 740-16’s and 995-16 springs on reworked stock heads that were used with a UD .556 lift SFT cam.

I used that same combo of parts on a set of TA heads last winter.

 

[PRH]

I haven’t looked at a Crower catalog in ages, but they used to have a short IH dual spring that I ran on my 340 with a .575” lift cam.
Might be worth a look.

I ran their short spring with their tall IH retainers with normal 4 groove locks to over 7k.

 

[middleagecrisis]

My interpretation, I could well be wrong, is that the stock valves are too short to get the installed height with the retainers I currently have with the springs. Obviously, I'm no expert in this field, but can the stock valves be utilized to run the lift? Did people just cut the crap out of the spring pads before using longer than stock valves and hope they didn't hit water?

 

[PRH]

Are all your valves 4 groove?

If so, you could buy one Comp 1730-1 retainer and one pair of 626-1 10* 4 groove locks.
Mock those up on the heads with your valves. If you’re at 1.700” or greater, you’d be good for the 995 springs.

The 995 will accommodate .550” lift even when installed at 1.650”

 

[Desoto291hemi]

What is your coil bind of the springs you are wanting to use ?

Tommy

 

[middleagecrisis]

Are all your valves 4 groove?

If so, you could buy one Comp 1730-1 retainer and one pair of 626-1 10* 4 groove locks.
Mock those up on the heads with your valves. If you’re at 1.700” or greater, you’d be good for the 995 springs.

The 995 will accommodate .550” lift even when installed at 1.650”

Yep, intake and exhaust 4 groove. I have a set of chevy 2.02/1.60 +.100 new S/S valves and a set of 587(?) casting heads. The J-Heads were originally set up with springs for a .490 hydraulic cam, but the solid lifter cams came around and I thought I'd go that route. I'm not sure $540 (for everything above) is worth the extra horsepower I'd get using the solid lifter cam with the J-Heads.

 

[middleagecrisis]

What is your coil bind of the springs you are wanting to use ?

Tommy

Not sure, as I took the heads to my machinist. I think he was doing a dimensional stack up to come up with required installed height of 1.800 using my desired cam lift.

 

[PRH]

I have a set of chevy 2.02/1.60 +.100 new S/S valves and a set of 587(?) casting heads.

+.100 SBC valves are typically 5.010” long…….. so you already have what you need there.

Whether or not you want to spend the $$$ to have the heads set up for use with 11/32” valves, along with what’s required to get them configured for dual springs, posi-seals, valve job, porting, etc……. Is your call.
Probably cheaper to buy some bare SM heads to put those valves into, and those will have 1.800”+ installed height.

 

[PRH]

I think what I used in my 340 were Crower 68405’s.
Whether or not they’re exactly as they were 35 years ago I can’t say, but it looks like with a fairly short installed height(1.650-1.700) they would be suitable for a variety of cams up to .570“ or so lift.

 

[Cuda416]

+.100 SBC valves are typically 5.010” long…….. so you already have what you need there.

Whether or not you want to spend the $$$ to have the heads set up for use with 11/32” valves, along with what’s required to get them configured for dual springs, posi-seals, valve job, porting, etc……. Is your call.
Probably cheaper to buy some bare SM heads to put those valves into, and those will have 1.800”+ installed height.

Black Friday is right around the corner too.

 

[furrystump]

It’s worth it to avoid the hydr cam. PRH did my heads and got me 1.80 installed using the longer valve and tool steel retainer. .558 lift.

 

[middleagecrisis]

I think what I used in my 340 were Crower 68405’s.
Whether or not they’re exactly as they were 35 years ago I can’t say, but it looks like with a fairly short installed height(1.650-1.700) they would be suitable for a variety of cams up to .570“ or so lift.

I stopped by the machine shop yesterday and spoke with my machinist about the Crower 68405 spring being an option. I found them at Summit along with the specs. Unfortunately, they won't work either, coil bind being the issue with my particular setup. As I was leaving, he caught me and thought he might have a spring option that will work. I already interrupted him during the shop holiday luncheon, so I told him to give me a call once he figures it out. Keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

My local machinist, who I trust greatly, just told me the J-Heads I dropped off aren't going to work with the solid lifter cam I wanted to run. He said I would need an installed spring height of ~1.800" and would need a +.100 inch valves. He didn't want to risk cutting the spring pads (looks like they were previously cut) and hit water. I had two solid cams to choose from, one .530" max lift, the other .588" max lift (1.5 ratio on both). I know that the smaller (.530") lift cam can't be all that more radical than what guys ran back in the old days. How did guys get away with running big solid cams back in the day, or even now, without using extra-long valves? These are the stock 2.02/1.60 valves with the 4-groove keepers.

Get a new machinist

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I stopped by the machine shop yesterday and spoke with my machinist about the Crower 68405 spring being an option. I found them at Summit along with the specs. Unfortunately, they won't work either, coil bind being the issue with my particular setup. As I was leaving, he caught me and thought he might have a spring option that will work. I already interrupted him during the shop holiday luncheon, so I told him to give me a call once he figures it out. Keeping my fingers crossed!

Need to convert them to 11/32 stems and use +.100 Chevy valves.
Then you need to set the seat height/depth. I have x heads that 1.9 and J heads that are 1.80 +

He needs to fish for more spring suppliers

 

[middleagecrisis]

Get a new machinist

He knows his sh^t and is trying to figure out a compromise for me that will work with another smaller solid lifter cam that I recently bought from another member. I’m not going to sink a bunch of money into the J heads that were ready to go, minus the spring issue. He’s already told me that I need to get longer valves if I want to set up the heads correctly. If you read through the thread, I’ve already said I have .100 longer Chevy 2.02/1.60 valves and I will probably get a set of bare Speedmaster heads to use those in the future in another motor, with a bigger solid lifter cam. I have a solid lifter cams I’m working with, not a roller.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

My local machinist, who I trust greatly, just told me the J-Heads I dropped off aren't going to work with the solid lifter cam I wanted to run. He said I would need an installed spring height of ~1.800" and would need a +.100 inch valves. He didn't want to risk cutting the spring pads (looks like they were previously cut) and hit water. I had two solid cams to choose from, one .530" max lift, the other .588" max lift (1.5 ratio on both). I know that the smaller (.530") lift cam can't be all that more radical than what guys ran back in the old days. How did guys get away with running big solid cams back in the day, or even now, without using extra-long valves? These are the stock 2.02/1.60 valves with the 4-groove keepers.

I was half asleep..
Ok, so 1st off I would skip running stock valves with any kind of heavy spring. They are soft and the faces will be beaten in..plus they can break in the perfect storm so to speak.
For the installed height... there are springs that will work with 1.75 heights.
.050 Pop up locks can cure the rest and or like I said.. setting the seat depth cleared way with a nice top cut.
You can be a good machinist but not habe much experience with stock mopar stuff and be lost.

Herbert cams, pioneer , comp ...have springs that will work.

Put these in at 1.73

HERS084-382 1.437 OD, 125/1.750 FT/HR Dual Valve Springs

 

[middleagecrisis]

I was half asleep..
Ok, so 1st off I would skip running stock valves with any kind of heavy spring. They are soft and the faces will be beaten in..plus they can break in the perfect storm so to speak.
For the installed height... there are springs that will work with 1.75 heights.
.050 Pop up locks can cure the rest and or like I said.. setting the seat depth cleared way with a nice top cut.
You can be a good machinist but not habe much experience with stock mopar stuff and be lost.

Herbert cams, pioneer , comp ...have springs that will work.

Put these in at 1.73

HERS084-382 1.437 OD, 125/1.750 FT/HR Dual Valve Springs

Thank you Sir!

 

[Newbomb Turk]

He knows his sh^t and is trying to figure out a compromise for me that will work with another smaller solid lifter cam that I recently bought from another member. I’m not going to sink a bunch of money into the J heads that were ready to go, minus the spring issue. He’s already told me that I need to get longer valves if I want to set up the heads correctly. If you read through the thread, I’ve already said I have .100 longer Chevy 2.02/1.60 valves and I will probably get a set of bare Speedmaster heads to use those in the future in another motor, with a bigger solid lifter cam. I have a solid lifter cams I’m working with, not a roller.

Im about .580 net lift with a 1.800 installed height.

You can find springs that will go in at 1.750 and take .600 lift if you look around.

It’s not nearly as critical with flat tappet cams, but running close(r) to coil bind is always better IF you can get it.

IOW’s if you are netting .550 lift and you have a 1.850 (or higher) installed height you are just moving the spring further away from coil bind.

If you can get it below .200 from coil bind you are ok. If you can get it down to .100 all the better.

 

[PRH]

I looked up the cam I ran in my 340 with the Crower 68405 springs……Crower 31313.
Shifted it at 7500.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I looked up the cam I ran in my 340 with the Crower 68405 springs……Crower 31313.
Shifted it at 7500.

Did you go in at 1.700 or taller?

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I looked up the cam I ran in my 340 with the Crower 68405 springs……Crower 31313.
Shifted it at 7500.

Thats a hefty cam

 

[PRH]

I had it done on a 108lsa(I don’t remember why).
It was a little soft on the “bottom”, and I didn’t have enough stall(4900) or gear(5.13’s) to make the best use of it.
If I shifted lower than 7500 the car would slow right down.

 

[PRH]

Did you go in at 1.700 or taller?

It was over 30 years ago, so I don’t really remember, but probably whatever it took to get about 130 on the seat.