Valve Spring Pressure Discussion

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SpeedThrills

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I'm going to be taking my 915 J heads to the shop soon for guides and a valve job.

The engine has a 292* .508" purple cam. I don't know what springs are on the heads now. They're single, with a damper.

I'm checking spring pressures at installed height and full lift, just to practice, as I know I'll lose pressure when the valves and seats are ground. I have an installed height mic ordered (More accurate, takes the wobble out of the retainer?), but I'm using snap gauges for now. The installed height on the one I checked is 1.799". Minus the .508 is 1.291". I'm getting 78# and 230# respectively, including the .057" shims that were on the heads. (The engine wasn't too eager to rpm.) Should be about 103# and 260#, according to specs I found for this cam. Plus, of course, what I lose during the valve job.

Four questions:

-What pressures will I need for this cam? 6500 RPM, at the most.
-How accurate do the height measurements need to be? It seems getting to the thousandth is unnecessary. But not hard to do.
-The shims on it sit just below the step on the valve spring seat. Assuming I don't run into coil bind, can shims be stacked, or will they walk? I guess new springs are in my future if they can't be stacked to or above the seat step?
-What seals should I use? It's street/strip, not much street, but I'd like a seal that could be used for a lot of miles, if the engine ever goes in that direction. It had umbrella seals on it. They had about .125" clearance from seal to the bottom of the retainer.

I know the shop can do all of this, but I like doing what I can, and learning. It's a retirement project. I've read about this stuff for years, but it's different when you do it yourself!

Oh, and I'm using a Howard's Cams pressure gauge. It seems a bit overkill having a 600# max. I wish I bought something with a lower max. I'm guessing it would be more accurate at lower pressures.
I have it set up on a small drill press. I read that you can use a press, but my press is nowhere near precise enough for this kind of work.
 
With that cam and a target of 6500rpm, I’d be looking for 110-120 closed/280-300 open.
(The recommended spring in the old MP engine book is 100/300)

I’m not sure what your rocker situation is, but I suspect with the longer than stock valves(from the Ferrea valve thread), the rocker to tip geometry isn’t ideal.
It’s also a part of why you’re installed height is about .100” taller than “usual” for stock sbm heads.
 
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There should be tons of options for a 1.8” installed height.
If you want a beehive, pac 1218 would be around 130 on the seat and a 313# rate.
Sounds good… I’ll be looking for something that’ll work with the standard size retainers I have.
With that cam and a target of 6500rpm, I’d be looking for 110-120 closed/280-300 open.
(The recommended spring in the old MP engine book is 100/300)

I’m not sure what your rocker situation is, but I suspect with the longer than stock valves(from the Ferrea valve thread), the rocker to tip geometry isn’t ideal.
It’s also a part of why you’re installed height is about .100” taller than “usual” for stock sbm heads.
I figured it would be in that range. Sounds familiar from years ago when I did some of this stuff.
I forgot my valves are taller. Was wondering how that IH got there. The valves aren’t buried.
The rockers are Crane Gold 1.5's. Geometry is good. This engine ran as it is. I’m just freshening. (Well, the spun #8 needed "freshening too!)
 
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Your installed height seems like a lot. Usually, small blocks are around 1.650 + or - if I remember right. Longer valves, maybe?
 
He has another post asking about ferrea valves. They're 5.07” if i remember correctly.
Gotchya. That's need to know info for those of us why didn't see "the other" thread. I'd be looking at some big block springs. Maybe see what the Comp 911 would get at 1.8.
 
With that cam and a target of 6500rpm, I’d be looking for 110-120 closed/280-300 open.
(The recommended spring in the old MP engine book is 100/300)

I’m not sure what your rocker situation is, but I suspect with the longer than stock valves(from the Ferrea valve thread), the rocker to tip geometry isn’t ideal.
It’s also a part of why you’re installed height is about .100” taller than “usual” for stock sbm heads.

Your installed height seems like a lot. Usually, small blocks are around 1.650 + or - if I remember right. Longer valves, maybe?
That's what PRH is telling me. Makes sense. I don't know how long a stock valve is. I'll have to check it out.
Every aspect of this spun rod repair has me learning a lot! All because I'm taking it apart to clean, and checking things as I go.
This engine had verrrry low (5") vacuum (even for a 292-508 cam), and didn't like to rpm. I'm hoping my loose guides are the vacuum problem, and low spring pressure (I'll post some soon) is the rpm problem.
 
That's what PRH is telling me. Makes sense. I don't know how long a stock valve is. I'll have to check it out.
Every aspect of this spun rod repair has me learning a lot! All because I'm taking it apart to clean, and checking things as I go.
This engine had verrrry low (5") vacuum (even for a 292-508 cam), and didn't like to rpm. I'm hoping my loose guides are the vacuum problem, and low spring pressure (I'll post some soon) is the rpm problem.
I'd say not too low. My slant 6 has 6hg at idle.
 

Whoops. I meant to link this thread in post #6. Lots of spring choices.
Guys with Crane Cams Book- Need Help

If you want to reuse yr retainers then measure yr current spring diameter and then go to summit and use the filters for 1.8” installed height and then the spring diameter.
I imagine there is a cheapish comp spring that will work.
 
Any thoughts on the type of seal to use? Street/strip, mostly street, but not much. What's good for the long haul if it ever gets transformed for more street use? It's had umbrellas on it, with no issues.
 
Viton seals, they fit SNUG.
I googled them. Sounds like they hold up a long time, too. Important if I ever tame the cam and drive it a lot. :thumbsup:

Still open to opinions. I'll ask the machinist, also. I'm going to drop them off in 2 weeks. I'll be up that way. (It's 110 miles, one way!)
 
I checked all the current heights and pressures. I didn't really have to check them all, I suppose, cuz I'll be doing it after the valve job, but I wanted to get a feel for it. And it can't hurt to have a record of them.
1753999023319.png
 
Assuming those results are accurate……..the calculated spring rates vary quite a bit.

Just looking at a few samples, the rate varied between like 315 to almost 380.

3I- 240-80=160/.508=314.9
4I- 270-80=190/.508=374.0
 
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Assuming those results are accurate……..the calculated spring rates vary quite a bit.

Just looking at a few samples, the rate varied between like 315 to almost 380.

3I- 240-80=160/.508=314.9
4I- 270-80=190/.508=374.0
What would be an acceptable variance in spring rate to you?

Also, would you shim the springs to have equal closed pressure, or open pressure? Or would you split the difference?
 
I’d want the rate to be way closer than what’s showing there.
For a mild streeter like that, I’d be okay with the open/closed variances being within about 15lbs.

I separate the springs into two groups of 8, and use the 8 stiffer ones on the heavier valve(intake).

For example, a 370lb/in spring changes 11lbs in .030”, so having them within 15lbs is very doable.
 
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