Cal Tonsley
Well-Known Member
Yes, offset milled them so as to elongate the holes by .120” - this was a figure provided by B3 once I’d provided all of my measurements
Valve train geometry
- Thread starter N1ce2k1llu
- Start date
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After seeing this problem for literally years I can tell you all exactly what the problem is, but you're not going to like it. It's the JUNK Crane 'gold' rocker arms. If you have this problem get rid of the rockers to someone who doesn't mind tearing their hair out, and simply buy a set of Hughes rockers, instantly the problem will disappear. Perfect tip alignment will be the order of the day, although in my experience it's not that big of a problem. I've got my own engine apart for a freshen up at the moment it's done 10 HARD years and I swapped the inlet valves for another set I liked better [Eddy heads] the stem dia. was about half a thou larger than the originals and I had to get the guides honed because some wouldn't even go into the guides, and yes this engine is using 1.6 Crane gold rockers with the rubbish tip alignment that they all come with and guess what virtually no guide wear in 10 years. I hope this helps someone.
Your problem is the Crane rockers, they are and always have been the problem, see my post on the bottom of the page.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Sorry, but you are wrong. It's every rocker out there. It's not a Crane problem. It's a Harlan Sharp problem and their answer for everything is use a lash cap. It's a MP problem because the ductile iron rockers need to be corrected.
Hughes is no better or no different. You, me and anyone else just bolting on rockers and thinking they are golden has no business doing engine work.
Face it. The fact is I know engine builders to this day who don't understand rocker geometry. It is what it is.
If you use anything but dead stock everything your rocker geometry needs correcting.
N1ce2k1llu
Well-Known Member
What are the measurements that needs to be taking? I need this kit.
Cal Tonsley
Well-Known Member
If you contact Michael at B3 Racing engines he’ll send you a document detailing the measuring process. His contact details may be found at B3 Racing Engines LLC - Performance Engine Building and Mopar Valvetrains
mderoy340
Well-Known Member
Good info on the tech articles.
What's a ball park figure $$$ for a SBM correction kit.
What's a ball park figure $$$ for a SBM correction kit.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
yep 1/8 much more and you hit the shaft wall
contact Mike for Pricing
contact Mike for Pricing
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Why is every other rocker wrong when you bolt them on. If you want me to believe you bolted your Hughes rockers right on and they don't need correction you are nuttier than a vega mite sandwhich.
Here is a pic of the "new" Hughes rockers. This is the alignment with the valve on the seat. Guess who they are supposedly made by now?
I have an order for a kit to correct this monstrosity to the best of my ability. I thought the customer was uninformed about who made the rockers, until I saw the pics. Talk about a step backwards.
The rockers aren't wrong for the head, the head is wrong for the rockers. The mounting points are in the wrong place. The rocker is nothing but a fulcrum, and I can make just about any rocker work on any head as long as there is enough room under the valve cover to fit it. It may not be an efficient rocker design for that application, but it will open and close the valve.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Criminny....why is this so hard to get even close? Is it just that another engine's rockers are being sold for Mopar SBM's?
It's not hard, if you design the rocker with the premise that the shaft will be located at the correct position for proper geometry.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
The stands-shafts - fulcrums are just absolutely in the wrong place for roller tip rockers- any brand- can't be fixed with the rocker unless shorter arms are used and there goes your ratio
early roller tip rockers- some of them had the arm on TOP of the fulcrum- picture how that worked (or not worked)
the stands-shafts- fulcrums are also in the wrong place for long valves and double bad for long valves and roller rockers
and even less so but still wrong for high lift cams, lash caps`
That Hughes geometry looks like a disaster waiting to happen- get a set of valves with chamfers and take the rpm up
now put a large od spring- retainer in
that retainer is hitting or too close in the pic
thanks for the pics- worth at least 2000 words
early roller tip rockers- some of them had the arm on TOP of the fulcrum- picture how that worked (or not worked)
the stands-shafts- fulcrums are also in the wrong place for long valves and double bad for long valves and roller rockers
and even less so but still wrong for high lift cams, lash caps`
That Hughes geometry looks like a disaster waiting to happen- get a set of valves with chamfers and take the rpm up
now put a large od spring- retainer in
that retainer is hitting or too close in the pic
thanks for the pics- worth at least 2000 words
famous bob
mopar misfit
Dayuum, I aint never seen anything that bad ! I guess I GOT LUCKY on my raised port, big block" heads. I tried lashcaps, but they threw the geometry off too bad, pulled them off on set up.
They sure are making junk these days ! pure junk ! no way geometry should be that far off.
It's great B3 has developed a product to correct such disasters.
It's great B3 has developed a product to correct such disasters.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Are all that brand heads that way ?
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
you get a similar result with stock heads
no head except the W series have the stands shifted
WTF
and Trick flow
Where are the canted valves or a Late Hemi head
just another 360 head that takes so long is so late to the game
no head except the W series have the stands shifted
WTF
and Trick flow
Where are the canted valves or a Late Hemi head
just another 360 head that takes so long is so late to the game
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yes, mostly because of all the variables involved in what affects the geometry makes it nearly impossible to locate the shafts for every conceivable assortment of parts.
As an example, when Indy came out with their head and it had saddles instead of using blocks I called them and asked WTF? How am I going to correct the geometry? He says if you know what you are doing you won't have to. So I ask, tell me what I need to know? He says run our parts and it will be correct.
I called bullshit and that was that. A couple of years later a set came through the shop. Customer bought the Indy package. The geometry was off. More than I care to let it go. So I milled off the stands and made the customer buy offset shafts and blocks. Fixed it. Indy told him I ruined his heads.
Same thing with their big block heads. I did a set back in 2007 and they geometry was sketchy at best. The customer was out of money so I let that slide, but it made me sick to do it.
This was long before I knew about Mike. Mike has now made it so there is no excuse for crap geometry.
I'm impressed by the number of guys who have checked out Mike, found him to be righteous and use his product. In the long run they will be much happier, and so will their valve train.
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Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
Same Exact conversation I had with INDY
This is for a big block, but you get the idea. Chapman Stage VIs, with B3RE custom rockers, and custom stands.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Beautiful work Mike. It looks like you milled the stands on the head at an angle. Did you, or is the picture playing with my eyes?
No, I didn't mill the stands at all. They came from Chapman that way. The way every Mopar head should come. I just made the stands and filled the bare heads.
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