VIN # help

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Evan Dutch

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Hello, I've got a 72 dart and a 74 dart. The dash in the 72 is beyond use. But the 74 has a decent interior, dash included. I plan to put the 74 dash in the 72. My question is; can I remove the vin plate from the 72 dash and put it on the 74 dash?Is there any problem with this? Thanks.
 
:popcorn: This is going to get a few opinions!
 
Ask your local state cops.

Internet opinions do not count - theirs do.
 
IMO, there isn't a big deal placing the 72 vin on the 74 dash if the dash is going back in the 72. That's the car the vin goes with.

Most places allow for removal and reinstall for resto purposes. Happens all the time on E body dashes.
 
Unlike other VIN posts, this one isn't a big deal. You are just replacing the dash frame. The same VIN is staying on the same car.

Just order the special rosette vin rivets and go for it.
 
Unlike other VIN posts, this one isn't a big deal. You are just replacing the dash frame. The same VIN is staying on the same car.

Just order the special rosette vin rivets and go for it.
I didn't think it would be a big deal. But you never know. People are real finicky with the vin numbers and what not. Barely legal to touch the darn things ya know.
 
What you're proposing I would put in the same league as removing a mattress tag. Other people will tell you that you should rot in Leavenworth though.
 
Unlike other VIN posts, this one isn't a big deal. You are just replacing the dash frame. The same VIN is staying on the same car.

Just order the special rosette vin rivets and go for it.
When you remove any VIN from its original location technically that is by design"tampering". Very odd how"intent" plays into this scenario.Ahh yes, later on down the road someone will buy this car with the wrong dash frame and the insurance company will have a reason to withhold payment.
 

If you are not tampering then why do you need new rivets?
 
If you are not tampering then why do you need new rivets?

It's perfectly legal to replace a damaged part on a car. Here, we have a damaged dash frame. If you really feel the need to question, debate and cry about this, I suggest you go talk to your local DMV.

The vin is not being altered or changed in this situation.

You will also no get any further replies from me.
 
Hello, I've got a 72 dart and a 74 dart. The dash in the 72 is beyond use. But the 74 has a decent interior, dash included. I plan to put the 74 dash in the 72. My question is; can I remove the vin plate from the 72 dash and put it on the 74 dash?Is there any problem with this? Thanks.

the "legal" issue is NOT which dash the VIN plate is on but which CAR it's on. your dart should have the VIN number stamped on another body part - like the radiator support or the trunk drip rail under the rubber strip. i don't know where the VIN numbers are stamped on a 72 dart but they should be stamped somewhere.

i ran a body shop in the 1970's and lots of cars had "VIN plates" on them at that time. if a car was wrecked and was damaged where the VIN plate was, it was legal (W.VA.) to remove the original VIN plate, repair or replace the damaged panel, then rivet the original VIN plate back on the repaired panel. again, the legal problems occur when you attempt to take a VIN number from one car and put it on another car.

as to the "criminal law" on this topic, the "violation" is the "intent" to "alter", "deface" or "remove" "the original manufacturers' vehicle identification number that was placed on the vehicle at the production factory." there would be no "violation" for example, if (for some reason) you just drilled out the old rivets on your VIN plate and replaced them with "new" rivets. accordingly, there would be no violation if you place your VIN plate on a different dash SO LONG AS that different dash was placed in the original car that corresponded to the original VIN number. in your situation, your "intent" to take the VIN plate off is not to "deceive" anyone but to replace the dash.

i do not believe you have a legal problem with what you want to do. HOWEVER, just to make sure, and to create evidence to back up your explanation, take pictures of your car with the original dash and original VIN plate intack before you remove anything. then when you remove the VIN plate, replace the dash then reattach the VIN plate, take some pictures showing that the original VIN is back in place on the original car it was attached to.

one last point - if you ever sell your car, it would be a good idea to give the buyer a "written statement" stating that you replaced the dash in the car and transferred the original VIN number to the new dash. writing and signing a statement like this will stop any questions later from the buyer (or the police) should that issue ever come up. AND it will also protect you if for some reason the buyer wanted to bring the car back after a week saying that you "scammed him" because you messed with the VIN number.

and as the lawyer's say, this is not intended to be legal advice. if you have further legal questions, you should consult an attorney licensed in your state.
 
And you have double standards. I deal with Missouri state patrol quite often and their main concern is"theft"! Not wheither one guy puts his car back on the road or crushes it! I have seen all three dealerships bring cars back with clips of different cars Ford GM and Chrysler. Call a spade a spade! I couldn't care less if this guy pulls this plate off and rivets it on another frame-go for it dude but if he can everyone else can move theirs without fear of retribution!
 
And you have double standards. I deal with Missouri state patrol quite often and their main concern is"theft"! Not wheither one guy puts his car back on the road or crushes it! I have seen all three dealerships bring cars back with clips of different cars Ford GM and Chrysler. Call a spade a spade! I couldn't care less if this guy pulls this plate off and rivets it on another frame-go for it dude but if he can everyone else can move theirs without fear of retribution!


d5667

i would warn you about following "your own advice." altering a VIN number on a vehicle is a FEDERAL OFFENSE. the distinction that i discussed that would probably never be prosecuted has to do with keeping the same VIN number on the SAME car. putting a VIN number from one car onto ANOTHER car can trigger criminal prosecution. it doesn't matter what your PERSONAL experiences have been or what you have seen others do - breaking the law is breaking the law and if some state trooper or district attorney wants to charge someone with altering a VIN number, there is NO legal defense to that action by saying "other people did that same thing."

here's the federal statute:

18 U.S. Code § 511 - Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers

(a)A person who—
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; or

(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act,

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(b)

(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).

(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—

(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;

(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;

(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and

(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by—

(i) the owner or his authorized agent;

(ii) applicable State or local law; or

(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.


(c) As used in this section, the term—

(1) “identification number” means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;

(2) “motor vehicle” has the meaning given that term in section 32101 of title 49;


(3) “motor vehicle demolisher” means a person, including any motor vehicle dismantler or motor vehicle recycler, who is engaged in the business of reducing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts to metallic scrap that is unsuitable for use as either a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part;

(4)“motor vehicle scrap processor” means a person—

(A) who is engaged in the business of purchasing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts for reduction to metallic scrap for recycling;

(B) who, from a fixed location, uses machinery to process metallic scrap into prepared grades; and

(C) whose principal product is metallic scrap for recycling;

but such term does not include any activity of any such person relating to the recycling of a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part as a used motor vehicle or a used motor vehicle part.

(d) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term “tampers with” includes covering a program decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act for the purpose of obstructing its visibility.
 
This world needs less lawyers.


until you get arrested or need to sue someone....

i don't have "a dog in any fight" on FABO. the only reason i offer legal views is to perhaps save someone from making a very expensive mistake - either by going to jail or in losing thousands of dollars in a law suit. i don't personally care what ANYONE who "tunes into" FABO does. everyone here on FABO are adults and can make their own decisions. if some of you chose not to follow good advice from family, friends or professionals, you must also be prepared to accept the consequences of your decisions.
 
I deal with Missouri state patrol quite often. Most are my customers. I certainly do not need any warnings. You can sue anyone at anytime for anything. My point here is"YOU"are doing your best to make criminals of anyone that rebuilds an automobile and you then have the audacity to call it"hobby"!
 
just make sure the same vin number stays with the same car ....period.

I have a build thread here on fabo where I rally dash swapped my 68 dart ...I swapped in the entire dash assembly from a 68 barracuda. I took the barracuda vin plate off and sliced it in half because that barracuda is a parts car with no title and it is pronounced dead. I took my dart vin plate which matches my title and leads back to the body numbers via fender tag and riveted it to the barracuda dash frame and put it back in the car. It's still legit, No problem. ooooooooh come and arrest me , money hungry lawyers LOL

I asked my DMV before I did it and they said to document it with pictures, they basically told me that they can give a rats *** about some 50 year old piece of tin that doesn't even bring much revenue in taxes. They would just as soon see all these old cars crushed anyways.

You must be living in a rich state if you think your state has the time and man power to baby sit thousands of street rods built and restorations for cars they don't even really care about.

It is complaint driven so only time they will raise a flag is if someone is crying and claiming fraud and is willing to proceed with court fees to sue you which is why you document it with pics.

Enjoy hot rodding
 
I changed my dash frame as i did not want to hack up a rally dash frame to put in my Rocky Mountain dash. Never gave it a second thought. Not sellin my car soooo
 
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