Well I hope it's worth it SB To Big Block

[chuckstirrr]

Here's my 340 Duster 727-auto, 489 posi built for street use made 3 passes at the track unloaded off the trailer and ran 2-12'2 and a 12.3 no tuning took the mufflers off and went down the race track, on the street you better be on your A-game because that little 340 turned on quick and hard, this summer I met a guy named ray who has been building and racing big block mopars since 1962 and thanks to Ray I ended up selling my 340 and auto, for $1800.00 and as luck would have it, the guy also had a big block 727 auto trans to boot, trans came with a TCI true 8-inch converter, low gear has been changed good hubs, trans-brake, deep trans pan, my 340 car was not numbers matching but was a true 340 car, now it's being built my way, Big Block 451 stroker motor fender well headers, 727-auto, mini tubed, I'm thinking ladder bar set up or idea's from any one that's got there power to the pavement, I think my 8 3/4 rear should hold up to the big block power? My motor 400 block bored .060 over and filled with K&B slugs 12.5.1 440 cast crank mains turned down to 400 size counter weights shaved 3/16 , 440 rods worked over, Launti 640 lift roller cam, roller rockers, Steel heads with major up lift ported and polished 225 intake valve and 184 exhaust wiend intake 1050 carb milodon oil pump kit , gear drive, head flow is new to me but Ray said they flow up around 350 ? he saying motor should push around 750 HP should be on the road end of march I'm hoping, P.S cast crank is coming out, I found a steel crank to go in, and looking into adding Hemi rods that I just came into , Well I hope it's all been worth it, my friend Ray sure made the cost of the motor worth it I just hope it turns on better than my little 340 did

 

[jimjimjimmy]

that thing is gonna haul a$$ nice work

 

[plumcrazy704406]

like the primered look! nothing else matters,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol

 

[moper]

A few things concern me. My apologies if I sound down on it, but I'm a firm believer in reality and I think you are being sold a bill of goods here.
I do not believe the heads will be anywhere near what is claimed. Factory non-max wedge heads, even pro ported, dont reach 350. There's not enough intake port, intake manifold, or cam to make anywhere near that number. Assuming the heads are above average porting quality they might make 290/300. Average being about 20cfm less. The intake choice is poor IMO, same with the stacking of 4500/4150 adaptor and spacer. All that plenum and there's no port in that intake. B wedge intakes are harder to come by, but it should have either the Indy with an open, or M1 with the adaptor on it to make some real numbers.
The front bars were done "lazy". The purpose of those bars is to trasfer energy from a frontal crash to the cage. I'm assuming the cage is going in but it's not visible in the pics. The reason I think there's a problem is the angle they are on... That will not transfer energy properly. Normally these bars approach the cowl perpendicular to it. Then eitehr pass through and go to the cage, or are plated as you see and the interior has similar plates and the bar comes straight back. I think as it sits, you have set yourself u pfor cowl cracking issues if you don't ever hit anything, and god forbid you do, that bar will just punch through the cowl cap and the front end can fold up.
Lastly, the strap being used as an engine plate... Not anywhere near strong enough. The reason plates (even stel ones) are wider is so they don't twist. Steel elephant ears are cheap....

Looks like some serious hardware there. I'd hate to see something happen or you get set up for eventual trouble.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I have to agree with Moper watch this video no other explanation needed. Look at the way the front bars absorbed the impact because of the arc built into them. This cage was properly engineered and no doubt save this girls life .

Your Bars on impact would probably rip the through the cowl without much force. Come back through the windshield bounce off the inside of the a-pillar and probably take your head off. Just a thought for your safety. Steve

Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=X06VSud3I38

 

[chuckstirrr]

A few things concern me. My apologies if I sound down on it, but I'm a firm believer in reality and I think you are being sold a bill of goods here.
I do not believe the heads will be anywhere near what is claimed. Factory non-max wedge heads, even pro ported, dont reach 350. There's not enough intake port, intake manifold, or cam to make anywhere near that number. Assuming the heads are above average porting quality they might make 290/300. Average being about 20cfm less. The intake choice is poor IMO, same with the stacking of 4500/4150 adaptor and spacer. All that plenum and there's no port in that intake. B wedge intakes are harder to come by, but it should have either the Indy with an open, or M1 with the adaptor on it to make some real numbers.
The front bars were done "lazy". The purpose of those bars is to trasfer energy from a frontal crash to the cage. I'm assuming the cage is going in but it's not visible in the pics. The reason I think there's a problem is the angle they are on... That will not transfer energy properly. Normally these bars approach the cowl perpendicular to it. Then eitehr pass through and go to the cage, or are plated as you see and the interior has similar plates and the bar comes straight back. I think as it sits, you have set yourself u pfor cowl cracking issues if you don't ever hit anything, and god forbid you do, that bar will just punch through the cowl cap and the front end can fold up.
Lastly, the strap being used as an engine plate... Not anywhere near strong enough. The reason plates (even stel ones) are wider is so they don't twist. Steel elephant ears are cheap....

Looks like some serious hardware there. I'd hate to see something happen or you get set up for eventual trouble.

there is a 1/4 plate welded in front of the bars I have done some major grinding to try and make it look nice, shock towers are trimmed and welded to the bars also welded to front of frame, yes motor mount is a little cheap but Rays 440 dart is set up the same way and he turning high 9's so I ran with it I like the motor plate look myself, I'm putting alot of trust in Ray he has been running big blocks and hemi's for years ,besides my motor and the 440 in the dart he has 6 other motors put together on stands, and many many sets of heads alumin. rods pistons cams pics of past cars dyno sheets of motors pulling any where from 450 hp to alittle over 750 hp and yes with steel heads that he ports and polish him self adds over size valves, Intake I want the M-1 but right now I'm following his lead, so far my cost in this motor is a little over $2200.00 and I helped put it together I know for a fact everything is new, so in my Duster should I be able to run low 10.0's or ? and I think the cost is good, I had over $5000.00 in my 340, Thanks for all input and I will work on front end safety, my wife likes going fast and her safety is NUMBER 1,

 

[moper]

Obviously it's up to you. I can see the plates but you're missing the point. That 1/4" plate is welded to 18gage sheet metal that is one layer thick. You need the cage behind that to transfer force, or if the front's hit hard enough (let's say a faster competitor breaks an axle at 1/2 track an veers into her lane) the bar will punch right thru it, plate and all. Also, having to grind any chassis member to make it look good, is a sure sign that it's not welded well or safe. Grinding of tubing welds at the tracks I go to is a fast way to fail tech. That's because last time I checked is not acceptible in the NHRA rule books. Not sure about IHRA.

Just out of curiousity... How many of Ray's cars ever crashed? Have you seen many others built like it? The reason I ask is I haven't and I've been doing this for almost 25 years now. The builders I know of use tubing fromed with a bender to bring the bar up and out from the frame, out a little more, connect and gusset the shock mount, and then hit the firewall below the cowl cap to better align with the cage. As I said, it's up to you, but the reason for safety requirements is for the one time the driver needs it. Not for the 40yrs that they haven't. You are placing a tremendous amount of trust in Ray. My concern is based on the engine numbers he's giving that I don't agree with. If you don't have the knowledge base or background to tell where he might be cutting corners that are fine in his estimation and with his life, but might not be with your car and your wife.

 

[chuckstirrr]

Obviously it's up to you. I can see the plates but you're missing the point. That 1/4" plate is welded to 18gage sheet metal that is one layer thick. You need the cage behind that to transfer force, or if the front's hit hard enough (let's say a faster competitor breaks an axle at 1/2 track an veers into her lane) the bar will punch right thru it, plate and all. Also, having to grind any chassis member to make it look good, is a sure sign that it's not welded well or safe. Grinding of tubing welds at the tracks I go to is a fast way to fail tech. That's because last time I checked is not acceptible in the NHRA rule books. Not sure about IHRA.

Just out of curiousity... How many of Ray's cars ever crashed? Have you seen many others built like it? The reason I ask is I haven't and I've been doing this for almost 25 years now. The builders I know of use tubing fromed with a bender to bring the bar up and out from the frame, out a little more, connect and gusset the shock mount, and then hit the firewall below the cowl cap to better align with the cage. As I said, it's up to you, but the reason for safety requirements is for the one time the driver needs it. Not for the 40yrs that they haven't. You are placing a tremendous amount of trust in Ray. My concern is based on the engine numbers he's giving that I don't agree with. If you don't have the knowledge base or background to tell where he might be cutting corners that are fine in his estimation and with his life, but might not be with your car and your wife.

how about when we put the cage in I tie into the back of the bar and 1/4 plate then drop down 5 to 6 inches come through the fire wall and tie into the back side of the bar will this improve safety or tear the bars out and start over Thanks

 

[Burntorange70]

This is how I was gong to do mine. Through the cowl and hit the down bars on the roll cage.


Car looks nice I like it a lot. How you going to mount the rad and front end? Just asking for my own build options.

 

[68dodge]

I have to agree with Moper watch this video no other explanation needed. Look at the way the front bars absorbed the impact because of the arc built into them. This cage was properly engineered and no doubt save this girls life .

Your Bars on impact would probably rip the through the cowl without much force. Come back through the windshield bounce off the inside of the a-pillar and probably take your head off. Just a thought for your safety. Steve

Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=X06VSud3I38

Very nice video. It shows exactly how to build it right and be safe if you are in an accident racing. Glad to see the driver was ok.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Nice , And looks to be done the way it should be.

This is how I was gong to do mine. Through the cowl and hit the down bars on the roll cage.


Car looks nice I like it a lot. How you going to mount the rad and front end? Just asking for my own build options.