Well now what?

-
gtgto

gtgto

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
936
Reaction score
483
Location
Connecticut
A little history. Replaced cam, lifters and push-rods about 100 miles ago. Broke in by running engine at 2200 for about 20 minutes initially. Have played with timing and valve preload a few times and it has run crappy and great in that time. Motor now has very noisy lifters and at idle does not seem happy.....Engine bounces. Seems to still have good power and runs good while moving. Just noisy. I tried to redo my preload since I have adjustable rockers from a 273, Some of the lifters I can press on the rocker and the lifter has spring and some of the lifters are solid and do not compress. The motor is a 70 340 and the cam I used was a duplicate of a 68 4 speed 340 and the lifters were an off brand supplied by Oregon Cam Grinders. Help???
 
Last edited:
Check to verify the adjuster screws aren’t wearing out.

I have no faith in what’s available for hyd lifters these days.
 
Sounds like some of your lifters aren't pumped up with oil. Maybe bad lifters, or an oiling problem to them. I'd pull a couple of the ones that are "springy" and see what they look like. Maybe take it apart and preoil before putting it back in, assuming it looks good otherwise. With any luck, you can pull some of the ones that are easy to get to without having to pull the intake.
 
4spdragtop said:
So hyd lifters? Have you verified oil flow(priming while turning engine over by hand)?
Click to expand...
I did prime the pump after initial installation. Got oil up to rockers. I've had the valve covers off a few times and oiling does not look like an issue.
 
Last edited:
PRH said:
Check to verify the adjuster screws aren’t wearing out.

I have no faith in what’s available for hyd lifters these days.
Click to expand...
Its very possible that the adjusters are not secure and are moving. If my lifters or cam lobes were wearing down I would have metal in my oil which would stick to my magnetic drain plug. Found no evidence of that. I am going to purchase what would've came in the car originally. I have already made an EBAY purchase and pushrods and new rockers . When they come in I will install and pray a lot. I also sent Ken of Oregon cams an email asking about the lifters they sent me and if they have a high failure rate. .
 
You should be able to verify the adjusters moving with a paint marker? If adjusters were moving wouldnt the pushrods be beat up a wee bit?
 
4spdragtop said:
You should be able to verify the adjusters moving with a paint marker? If adjusters were moving wouldnt the pushrods be beat up a wee bit?
Click to expand...
I only checked the drivers side of the motor and the pushrods were fine. Not sure how to explain the looseness of the adjusters after adjusting to 0 lash and then 3/4 of a turn after running it for a a short period of time.. If its a lifter issue I must have 4 or 5 that are bad. I have like 100 miles on the car since they were installed. Does what I'm trying to describe sound like symptoms of collapsed lifters?
 
I’ve had the ball on the bottom of the adjuster screws wear out while the motor was on the dyno.
 
There’s only one way to really find out. And yes it kinda sucks but it is the best way to know for sure. Pull the intake... check the cam and lifters. Better to know for sure than sit and wonder... this was after less than 2 hours, and 30 minutes of it was brake-in...

8F2AF090-0494-4246-9C46-5F434F0392FA.jpeg
 
30-ish years ago, when replacement 273 rockers were readily available new, I built a 360 that had been running them already.
3 of them were galled up on the shafts pretty bad, so I got three new ones.
During the cam break in I started to hear some clatter.
Shut the motor down, found a few rockers had some lash.
It was a fairly stout hyd cam, I figured it didnt survive.
This was back before I was ever worried about soft springing anything.

I never really looked anything over, I just yanked the cam out.
Only to discover....... it was perfectly fine...... and so were the lifters.

The adjuster screws in the 3 new rockers were soft as butter, and had just worn right down.
The old 13 were all fine.
Put it back together with the adjuster screws from the three worn out rockers installed into the three new rockers...... all was good.

I’ve seen some pretty worn out lifters before....... but I have yet to get “the hole”.
That’s pretty ugly for 2.5hrs use.
 
I'm gonna step out and let more experienced advise you. I didnt realize that your adjusters were/are loose.
As far as lifters, I seem to always read that hydraulic ones are the problem. Solids dont seem to fail ANYWHERE near as often.
Good luck
gtgto said:
I only checked the drivers side of the motor and the pushrods were fine. Not sure how to explain the looseness of the adjusters after adjusting to 0 lash and then 3/4 of a turn after running it for a a short period of time.. If its a lifter issue I must have 4 or 5 that are bad. I have like 100 miles on the car since they were installed. Does what I'm trying to describe sound like symptoms of collapsed lifters?
Click to expand...
 
If you’re using 273 style rockers, have they been modified to use lock nuts, or are the adjuster screws still just friction lock?

If they’re friction lock, do they all still have a good amount of resistance to turning?
 
PRH said:
If you’re using 273 style rockers, have they been modified to use lock nuts, or are the adjuster screws still just friction lock?

If they’re friction lock, do they all still have a good amount of resistance to turning?
Click to expand...
They have not been modified at all. As far as friction still being present I would say no. Some of them I can turn some by hand. When I put a socket on a few of them to do my 3/4 turn preload there was very little resistance at all. I have probably not helped by backing them out and adjusting as much as I have either.
 
4spdragtop said:
I'm gonna step out and let more experienced advise you. I didnt realize that your adjusters were/are loose.
As far as lifters, I seem to always read that hydraulic ones are the problem. Solids dont seem to fail ANYWHERE near as often.
Good luck
Click to expand...
I had the cam done by Oregon Cam Grinders and between the custom pushrods I had made and the cam, lifters, and new timing chain I am hoping the cam is not damaged and since the car still runs strong I'm really thinking the rockers are the issue. In hind site it might have been wise to go solid but I really hope my issues aren't that deep.
 
PRH said:
30-ish years ago, when replacement 273 rockers were readily available new, I built a 360 that had been running them already.
3 of them were galled up on the shafts pretty bad, so I got three new ones.
During the cam break in I started to hear some clatter.
Shut the motor down, found a few rockers had some lash.
It was a fairly stout hyd cam, I figured it didnt survive.
This was back before I was ever worried about soft springing anything.

I never really looked anything over, I just yanked the cam out.
Only to discover....... it was perfectly fine...... and so were the lifters.

The adjuster screws in the 3 new rockers were soft as butter, and had just worn right down.
The old 13 were all fine.
Put it back together with the adjuster screws from the three worn out rockers installed into the three new rockers...... all was good.

I’ve seen some pretty worn out lifters before....... but I have yet to get “the hole”.
That’s pretty ugly for 2.5hrs use.
Click to expand...
Like I replied to someone else here on my thread. The fact that I have no metal shavings in my oil is telling me the issue is not catastrophic. I hope my issue is the adjustable rockers. Of course I will need pushrods and the rockers. Already bought and waiting on delivery to put it back to factory type rockers. I hope I get lucky and find out thats all it was. If I have to take her apart some more I will but i really just want it to run good so it can be driven. Thanks for you input.
 
If the lifters aren't pumping up, I don't think changing the rockers and push rods will help any. Hope I'm wrong and your find a simple solution.
 
cudamark said:
If the lifters aren't pumping up, I don't think changing the rockers and push rods will help any. Hope I'm wrong and your find a simple solution.
Click to expand...
The last time a I ran the car on Saturday after a drive I removed the valve covers and I pushed on all the rockers and all of the lifters were pumped up, I don't know how long an engine has to sit for the oil to bleed down but previously I had some that had not bleed down and some still pumped up after it sat. I hope your wrong too....hahaha. I will find out hopefully by the weekend.
 
Yes those adjusters are wore OUT if you can turn by hand. There are Crane adjusters with locknuts available, but supply is limited now with Covid.
Good luck, I'm hoping it's cheap n simple!
gtgto said:
They have not been modified at all. As far as friction still being present I would say no. Some of them I can turn some by hand. When I put a socket on a few of them to do my 3/4 turn preload there was very little resistance at all. I have probably not helped by backing them out and adjusting as much as I have either.
Click to expand...
 
Scody21 said:
There’s only one way to really find out. And yes it kinda sucks but it is the best way to know for sure. Pull the intake... check the cam and lifters. Better to know for sure than sit and wonder... this was after less than 2 hours, and 30 minutes of it was brake-in...

View attachment 1715785517
Click to expand...
Well I was thinking way to much and decided to pull the intake just to make sure nothing catastrophic is happening or happened. Cam and lifters look brand new still, thank goodness. Whats another intake gasket added to my expenses.....I should get my rocker parts in tomorrow so I can start putting it back together, The intake gasket will be the last part I get.
 
Here we go again. My engine seems to have some noise I can hear especially around 2500 RPM's and higher. Although the cam is newer when I had just installed it I was playing with the preload and backed off on the preload with the adjustable rockers I had. Took the car for a ride and and the ride started out fine then by the time I was almost home the engine was laboring up a hill.......I limped it home but I think damage might have been done to my new cam. I found my lifters had most of the retaining clips pinched and the lifters were solid with no give at all putting pressure on them. I replaced all the lifters....Did a break in all over. Car seems to run pretty good but I hear noise at 2500 that sounds like it could be a knock and the idle does not sound as choppy as it did when I first installed the cam and the engine bounces some at idle. I'm going to start tearing it down to see what's up. I have a bad feeling at the least my new Oregon Cam Grinders repro 68 340 4 speed cam will need to be replaced. I spoke to Ken and he said if the damage isn't to bad I could send it back to him to be re worked. I think I would rather just get a new one and chalk it up to a lesson learned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top