If I was an Amsoil dealer denying it and talking about other good products wouldn't make me much money would it? As a full-blooded conservative American capitalist it irks me to see people whine about things that do not affect them in the slightest way.
What oil?
- Thread starter VegasJetta
- Start date
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At least you recognize that they do make great products. As for the price, I paid $5.10 a quart for the 5W-30 I just put in my wife's car. How does that compare to the price of other synthetics like Mobil 1? Exactly the same. Actually less since you don't have to change it as often. I don't know how that is going to inflate prices. Especially when Amsoil does so little volume compared to the major manufacturers. As far as being a "cult follower" or "preaching a gospel" or helping to get more money into the pockets of Amsoil execs, I couldn't care less about that. I am a loan officer, real estate investor, husband, and father and I don't have one spare minute to spend trying to sell oil. I just relate my experiences and the things I have read just like any other gear head does. I used to recommend Mobil 1 all the time before I compared manufacturer data and saw so many posts by people who saw positive results from switching to Amsoil and before Mobil dropped the ZDDP from all of their oils but one. If I start to see a preponderance of data and posts about real-world experience that make another product look better than Amsoil's stuff I will switch to them in a heartbeat and recommend them if I feel they deserve it.
Yes, Valvoline VR1 is good stuff too. I think it has a ZDDP concentration around 1300ppm.
demon seed
The Original Demon Seed
You know this really pisses me off. I've gone through all the literature concerning the ZDDP package (zinc) in Rotella T for 2008, Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple (getting info from those bozos is like pulling teeth), and Valvoline VR1 and narrowed it down to VR1 cuss they're open about listing the zinc content at 1200ppm. Now the fun part, VR1 is carried by NAPA both here in Canada and the states but you can't get 10w30 in canada only the 20w50. I can get both in the states so as soon as go down there I'll buy a case. GOD
adriver
Blazing Apostle
Glad Demon Seed pointed out that a trip to the dentist is involved in this subject.
(I said something about the difficulty of getting objective information on this topic).
Let's not get hung on my German point.
Next someone will bring up Der Furher.
So Standard Oil WAS the first synthetic?
Glad you pointed that out too, 2shelbys.
Well not to nit pick.
But that would be Mobil then, I think.
And Im not a chemist but you said Mobil and Amsoil are both polyalphaolefins.
I read that Mobil is.
But in fact Amsoil is a non-POA base.
Can you clear this up, please?
(If it is true, and matters)
.
Im sorry I thought the A in API stood for American not automotive.
Seems a little narrow in your focus.
But your right, we are only concerned with automotive field.
It doesnt matter that Merlins were used in P-51s and PT boats.
It doesn't matter that super charged V-12 Detroit Allisons flew, ran and swam.
In fact lets limit our thinking to just Chrysler engines.
In fact, like the poster said, this fellow just asked about his slant six.
Lets only be concerned with what will work in that particular engine.
But again, if we are going to make a claim about the automotive field..........
We must defer the API award to the French then. OUI?
Or is Motul lying?
ain10:
Hey, I usually am wrong at least once a day.
You dont know me.
But if you did, you would know that being right isnt as important to me as not being victim to hype.
Demon Seed, maybe we SHOULD invoke Deity
(I said something about the difficulty of getting objective information on this topic).
Let's not get hung on my German point.
Next someone will bring up Der Furher.
So Standard Oil WAS the first synthetic?
Glad you pointed that out too, 2shelbys.
Well not to nit pick.
But that would be Mobil then, I think.
And Im not a chemist but you said Mobil and Amsoil are both polyalphaolefins.
I read that Mobil is.
But in fact Amsoil is a non-POA base.
Can you clear this up, please?
(If it is true, and matters)
.
Im sorry I thought the A in API stood for American not automotive.
Seems a little narrow in your focus.
But your right, we are only concerned with automotive field.
It doesnt matter that Merlins were used in P-51s and PT boats.
It doesn't matter that super charged V-12 Detroit Allisons flew, ran and swam.
In fact lets limit our thinking to just Chrysler engines.
In fact, like the poster said, this fellow just asked about his slant six.
Lets only be concerned with what will work in that particular engine.
But again, if we are going to make a claim about the automotive field..........
We must defer the API award to the French then. OUI?
Or is Motul lying?
ain10:Hey, I usually am wrong at least once a day.
You dont know me.
But if you did, you would know that being right isnt as important to me as not being victim to hype.
Demon Seed, maybe we SHOULD invoke Deity
A
Ace
Guest
The wide assortment of products is why the "oil" subject is so controversial these days. You gotta be careful about comparing apples to apples. I don't know that much about Amsoil as far as the specific grades and selections within their lineup. I doubt they are all strictly GpIV PAO-based stuff. Maybe they are. But I doubt it.
Don't even get me started on conventionals vs. synthetic. That's a can of worms in a can of worms.
Don't even get me started on conventionals vs. synthetic. That's a can of worms in a can of worms.
You are correct. The "A" in "API" is for "American". I don't know whether or not Standard actually marketed their synthetic but I know they were working on one in 1929. Maybe we both got a little feisty. Sorry for my end of that. Amsoil's literature points out that their base stocks are PAO's:Glad Demon Seed pointed out that a trip to the dentist is involved in this subject.
(I said something about the difficulty of getting objective information on this topic).
Let's not get hung on my German point.
Next someone will bring up Der Furher.
So Standard Oil WAS the first synthetic?
Glad you pointed that out too, 2shelbys.
Well not to nit pick.
But that would be Mobil then, I think.
And I’m not a chemist but you said Mobil and Amsoil are both polyalphaolefins.
I read that Mobil is.
But in fact Amsoil is a non-POA base.
Can you clear this up, please?
(If it is true, and matters)
.
I’m sorry I thought the “A” in API stood for American not automotive.
Seems a little narrow in your focus.
But your right, we are only concerned with automotive field.
It doesn’t matter that Merlins were used in P-51s and PT boats.
It doesn't matter that super charged V-12 Detroit Allisons flew, ran and swam.
In fact let’s limit our thinking to just Chrysler engines.
In fact, like the poster said, this fellow just asked about his slant six.
Let’s only be concerned with what will work in that particular engine.
But again, if we are going to make a claim about the automotive field..........
We must defer the API award to the French then. OUI?
Or is Motul lying?
Hey, I usually am wrong at least once a day.
You don’t know me.
But if you did, you would know that being “right” isn’t as important to me as not being victim to hype.
Demon Seed, maybe we SHOULD invoke Deity
The majority of AMSOIL synthetic lubricants are formulated with polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks. PAO base stocks offer unsurpassed protection and performance and are widely recognized as the industry's premier base stock technology. Unlike conventional base stocks, PAO base stocks contain fully saturated, hydrogenated molecules that are free of wax and impurities, allowing superior performance in temperature extremes, oxidation and acid resistance and clean operation. Synthetic oils formulated with less expensive synthetic base stocks also offer performance benefits over conventional oils, but they cannot match the performance of PAOs for the high standards required for AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
What a pain. One of the reasons I went with Amsoil is that when I sent out requests to various companies about the ZDDP issue they sent me the most lengthy (possibly TOO lengthy) reply which explained the whole issue from top to bottom and gave exact info on their products. All of their synthetics have a ZDDP concentration in the 1360-1390ppm range. You are right about Royal Purple. They never responded. I think I posted Amsoil's response in another oil thread so I won't post it here unless someone wants to see a REALLY thorough explaination of the issue.
so none of there oils are API SM rated? Which means they dont meet warranty requirements of cars made since around 2004?
To be honest, I don't know for sure. I only looked at the ones in their response about ZDDP and specifically the one I would be using: 20W-50 for the Barracuda. I'm sure they must have something that is SM. It would be stupid not to. They probably would not have listed them in a response to my question about ZDDP. It wouldn't make much sense to list a product that wouldn't work in my application. I should have said "all of the synthetics they listed in their response" not "all of their synthetics". I remember reading somewhere that any oil that is marketed as a "racing" or "off-road" oil like Amsoil's 20W-50 racing oil and Valvoline's VR1 can be given an SM rating even with the high ZDDP content.
A
Ace
Guest
The move from SL to SM started around a year ago. It's not like an exact cutover date or anything. It's an API rating spec designed to satisfy the EPA and carmaker's requirements for lower emissions and greater fuel economy.
So cars manufactured in the late 2006 early 2007 model years were the first to be affected in terms of their maufacturer's oil specification. Practically speaking, the only people affected by it are those like us with old flat tappet cams, and high-perf racing valvetrains that will suffer if their owners don't get enough anti-wear additives in the oil.
I found some interesting info here, if you really want to dig into the the technical aspects of this subject:
http://www.infineum.com/information/tables.html
So cars manufactured in the late 2006 early 2007 model years were the first to be affected in terms of their maufacturer's oil specification. Practically speaking, the only people affected by it are those like us with old flat tappet cams, and high-perf racing valvetrains that will suffer if their owners don't get enough anti-wear additives in the oil.
I found some interesting info here, if you really want to dig into the the technical aspects of this subject:
http://www.infineum.com/information/tables.html
adriver
Blazing Apostle
The majority of AMSOIL synthetic lubricants are formulated with polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks. PAO base stocks offer unsurpassed protection and performance and are widely recognized as the industry's premier base stock technology. Unlike conventional base stocks, PAO base stocks contain fully saturated, hydrogenated molecules that are free of wax and impurities, allowing superior performance in temperature extremes, oxidation and acid resistance and clean operation. Synthetic oils formulated with less expensive synthetic base stocks also offer performance benefits over conventional oils, but they cannot match the performance of PAOs for the high standards required for AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
Very interesting.
So in the information you recieved Amsoil claims to use the same base stock (POA) as Mobil in the majority of their lubricants.
Just like ACE said.
You and the places like Wikipedia seemed to have different opinion.
The web claims Amsoil to be a non-POA or die-ester base.
And I assume you meant that by your reply to ACE.
Pardon my French, but Sh#1t.
If we cant get the basics how the crap am I supposed to get the poop on ZDDP.
And the whole synthetic label can be misleading. (duh)
A
Ace
Guest
Believe it or not, the SM spec actually has little or nothing to do with ZDDP levels. I'll try to start explaining it again tomorrow. Been a long day, gotta go now...
Like I said, you really can not trust Wikipedia at all. Anyone can post anything there. I have seen some history-related stuff there that was so wrong it had to have been made up on the spot. If an Amsoil dealer posts something there it will most likely be too optomistic. If someone that hates Amsoil (like some guys here) posts something about them it would probably accuse them of being a criminal organization. It is best to look for non-biased industry sources. Yes, the whole "synthetic" label thing is so screwy. There really are not even any labeling requirements as far as what really is or is not "synthetic" or "100% synthetic". As far as I know, nothing is 100% synthetic because all synthetics contain some petroleum-based additives or carrier oils. It seems that industry practice is to say "100% synthetic" in relation to the base stocks only.
70dart
Well-Known Member
I use Amsoil now because I have had no problems when using it and the dealer here is very knowledgeable and a great guy who will help you in any way he can and goves all kinds of grat tips for performance. Plus he is a hell of a good racer. He runs a bow tie but we can't all be mopar lovers the following is a list of his engine specs and if Amsiol provides adequate protection for him it should work well for most others. I used to use Royal Purple but the dealer here is a home based business that is at the track once in a while and hard to get in contact with. Not really fussy if they sell to you or not so I don't feel like chasing them to purchase their product.
Engine specs;
DONOVAN ALUMINUM BIG BLOCK
NOS PRO SHOT NITROUS OXIDE
FOGGERS, (3 AT 500 H.P. EACH)
VIPER 4TH STAGE OF NITROUS OXIDE
DART BIG CHIEF ALUMINUM CYLINDER HEADS
CAM MOTION SOLID ROLLER CAMSHAFT
JESEL BELT DRIVE
M.G.P. ALUMINUM CONNECTING RODS
VENOLIA PISTONS, 13.5 :1 COMPRESSION RATIO
L. A. ENTERPRISES CRYPTONITE CRANK SHAFT
MOROSO 2 PIECE DRY SUMP OIL PAN, 4 STAGE
T & D ROLLER ROCKER ARMS
MANTON PUSH RODS
CPE TWIN DISC CLUTCH
CHILDS & ALBERT PISTON RINGS
CLEVITE RODS AND MAIN BEARINGS
HOLLEY CARBS, 1150 DOMINATORS (2)
MSD CRANK TRIGGER
FULTON SHEET METAL INTAKE
GM ALTERNATOR
2000+ HORSEPOWER
http://www.bookingracing.ca/index.htm:burnout:
Engine specs;
DONOVAN ALUMINUM BIG BLOCK
NOS PRO SHOT NITROUS OXIDE
FOGGERS, (3 AT 500 H.P. EACH)
VIPER 4TH STAGE OF NITROUS OXIDE
DART BIG CHIEF ALUMINUM CYLINDER HEADS
CAM MOTION SOLID ROLLER CAMSHAFT
JESEL BELT DRIVE
M.G.P. ALUMINUM CONNECTING RODS
VENOLIA PISTONS, 13.5 :1 COMPRESSION RATIO
L. A. ENTERPRISES CRYPTONITE CRANK SHAFT
MOROSO 2 PIECE DRY SUMP OIL PAN, 4 STAGE
T & D ROLLER ROCKER ARMS
MANTON PUSH RODS
CPE TWIN DISC CLUTCH
CHILDS & ALBERT PISTON RINGS
CLEVITE RODS AND MAIN BEARINGS
HOLLEY CARBS, 1150 DOMINATORS (2)
MSD CRANK TRIGGER
FULTON SHEET METAL INTAKE
GM ALTERNATOR
2000+ HORSEPOWER
http://www.bookingracing.ca/index.htm:burnout:
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