If you look at the test results there is no question...Amsoil products are the best. Many people think that Mobil 1 was the original synthetic but Amsoil actually introduced synthetics more than 2 years earlier. Royal Purple also has some good stuff. The biggest problem with modern oils in older cars with flat tappet cams is the lack of a zinc additives which are usually known as ZDDP or ZP. These additives provide extreme pressure protection and can save the cam and lifters if the oil itself is breaking down. They have been almost completely removed from modern oils, including synthetics, because they cause deterioration of the catalytic. This is even more important in a high horsepower engine. You should not use any oil with a zinc concentration less than 1200ppm. 1300-1400ppm is best. The best oil for any HP engine is Amsoil Formula 2000 20W-50 Severe Service Racing oil. Royal Purple has a good product too but it's name escapes me. I have heard some good things about Rotella products but I have not used them nor has anyone I know. The recommended change interval for Amsoil's regular grade synthetic under normal conditions is 25,000 miles or 1 year!
What oil?
- Thread starter VegasJetta
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Dart-swinger
Banned
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70 duster 340
I use 15w50 mobil-1 in my 340 ,starts fast even during Indiana winters
I use 15w50 mobil-1 in my 340 ,starts fast even during Indiana winters
Mobil re-introduced their 15W-50 because they had reduced the level of ZDDP in most of their oils to an un-acceptable level for older cars. They state that the new 15W-50 has a higher concentration of it but do not give the actual ppm. Most of Amsoils synthetics have a concentration in the high 1300's which is perfect.
66340SEDAN
FABO Member #3649
I run 15W40 Rotella T (diesel) in my Valiant 340. I use Mobil 1 full-synthetic 5W30 in my 98 Neon R/T, also use Valvoline 20W50 racing oil in my Satellite 340 engine. Never had any problems with these! 
A lot of people run the diesel oils, Rotella, Delvac, Delo, etc. That is going to be a problem before too long because they are going to lose their ZDDP too since diesels are going to have cat's too.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
there are two cool articles in the new mopar enthusiast magazine.. full of a ton of info about oils.
A
Ace
Guest
2shelbys, before we go much further with this I'd like to point out a couple of things with reference to your posts above.
1) I would be interested to see the "tests" mentioned above (link would be fine), because all the used oil anaysis reports I have seen show no advantage to Amsoil running under similar conditions as comparared to the same grade spec'd products from other oil companies. Amsoil uses the same base stocks as other companies, and in fact only "blend" their boutique oils, claiming their proprietary formulas are somehow superior to Mobil1, Chevron, other products, etc. This basically just translates into a same or similar higher-priced product.
2) The currect API SJ diesel rating formulated oils for the latest generation diesles with EGR and catalytic systems contains only slightly smaller amounts of ZDDP and phosphorous-related additives. Is your claim to this knowledge of some HDEO/ZDDP-related problem from an inside source at Amsouil, or just pure speculation on your part? No Zinc-related cat poisioning has yet been documented, even in the recent SAE paper I am aware of outlining tests performed for it about two years ago around the time when this concern became apparent.
Having said that, I do believe the HDEO's (diesel-rated oils) are going to be much better for older flat tappet cam engines in the long run.
1) I would be interested to see the "tests" mentioned above (link would be fine), because all the used oil anaysis reports I have seen show no advantage to Amsoil running under similar conditions as comparared to the same grade spec'd products from other oil companies. Amsoil uses the same base stocks as other companies, and in fact only "blend" their boutique oils, claiming their proprietary formulas are somehow superior to Mobil1, Chevron, other products, etc. This basically just translates into a same or similar higher-priced product.
2) The currect API SJ diesel rating formulated oils for the latest generation diesles with EGR and catalytic systems contains only slightly smaller amounts of ZDDP and phosphorous-related additives. Is your claim to this knowledge of some HDEO/ZDDP-related problem from an inside source at Amsouil, or just pure speculation on your part? No Zinc-related cat poisioning has yet been documented, even in the recent SAE paper I am aware of outlining tests performed for it about two years ago around the time when this concern became apparent.
Having said that, I do believe the HDEO's (diesel-rated oils) are going to be much better for older flat tappet cam engines in the long run.
My switch to Amsoil products was based on the data sheets and comparisons put out by the various manufacturers (go to their sites and compare them) that showed a pretty clear advantage to using Amsoil and on a TON of posts on various forums about real-world experience. Everything from slightly lower ET's to quicker turbo spool-up times. I never found even one negative review of an Amsoil product other than whining about the price, which you can get around by signing up as a preferred customer.
Maybe it has not been documented but "cat poisoning" was the stated concern behind the new API specs for reduced ZDDP concentration. I have no "inside connection" at Amsoil nor is it "speculation". I read a ton of forum posts and have seen a growing number of racers talking about cam failures they never used to have. There is a great post on the Shelby Forums from a Cobra owner who is an engineer at a facility that is having widespread mechanical failures in their equipment since switching to low-ZDDP lubricants as a cost-cutting measure. If you do not want to believe it just contact any of the major cam manufacturers and see what they have to say about it.
They are a good choice now, especially at the price, but not for the long run because they will be losing their ZDDP content soon too as diesels are running cat's too.
No, that is not true. Amsoil developed the very first API synthetic oil back in 1972, a little over 2 years before Mobil 1 showed up. They also developed the very first synthetic ATF. They are a true manufacturer and have many innovations to their credit.
adriver
Blazing Apostle
Like I said, let’s go fishing.
Did I open up the can with “original”?
Actually I THINK the Germans had the “original” synthetic oil about 40 years before Amsoil.
(How long have we been running synthetic in turbo jets?)
Being the first is a good marketing tool no matter who claims it about anything.
Later we get the qualifier that “Amsoil developed the very first API synthetic”.
This stuff is very hard to get objective information on.
According to Wikipedia Amsoil and Mobil are a different type of synthetic.
And it gets deeper.
Check out what Wikipedia says about the Amsoil entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsoil
Like Alice is Wonderland: Curiouser and curiouser!”
Think I’ll go to bed now.
Did I open up the can with “original”?
Actually I THINK the Germans had the “original” synthetic oil about 40 years before Amsoil.
(How long have we been running synthetic in turbo jets?)
Being the first is a good marketing tool no matter who claims it about anything.
Later we get the qualifier that “Amsoil developed the very first API synthetic”.
This stuff is very hard to get objective information on.
According to Wikipedia Amsoil and Mobil are a different type of synthetic.
And it gets deeper.
Check out what Wikipedia says about the Amsoil entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsoil
Like Alice is Wonderland: Curiouser and curiouser!”
Think I’ll go to bed now.
Their stuff is in the stores around here. They do have a commercial sales division. Why do some people have a problem with the fact that they give customers a chance to not only save some money but make some money? When the product is good and not much more expensive than other synthetics, why care? I don't deal the stuff but I signed up as a preferred customer ($10) and get 25% off the price charged in the stores around here.
There is no funny business there. You do not get a "qualifier later". They clearly state that they developed the first API synthetic, not the first ever. "Second in synthetics after the Nazis" would not be a good seller. You do not find the Nazis getting much credit for any of their advances. NOS, ejection seats, fuel injection, methanol injection, supercharging, rocket and jet power, radio-controlled, wire-guided, and video-guided smart bombs, etc. You also have to be REALLY careful about trusting anything on Wikipedia. Anyone can post anything there. As a serious history buff I can tell you that Wikipedia is more full of crap than a porta-potty at a chili cookoff.
SOMEBODY is selling the product. More and more dealers selling nothing results in bankruptcy.
70dart
Well-Known Member
Royal purple does the same. Nothing wrong with pushing a good product and making money doing it!
A
Ace
Guest
Talk about you're "anecdotal evidence."
ukerigh:Still waiting to see cite of these alleged "tests." Nevermind. Most likely Amsoil-sponsored tests, no doubt.
Maybe if you call pyramid marketing an innovation. The implication in the rest of your statement is purely misleading Amsoil propaganda. All oil companies selling consumer products get their base stocks from the same big three producers: XOM, Chevron and BP. Believe whatever you want, but the Amsoil myth is just that: A myth perpetuated in Internet forums and word of mouth preached by devout cult followers.
adriver
Blazing Apostle
HAHAHAHA! Are you kidding me? The real-world experiences of people actually using the product (especially racers) are the BEST indicator of the product's quality you could ever ask for, no matter what the product is. And as I said, I looked at the data sheets and comparison tests performed by pretty much every manufacturer and weighed the claims they made about how their product performs against the competition. Look them up yourself.Talk about you're "anecdotal evidence."
Still waiting to see cite of these alleged "tests." Nevermind. Most likely Amsoil-sponsored tests, no doubt.
Dude, you have no clue what you are talking about. Amsoil did develop the first API synthetic oil and the first synthetic ATF. It is not propaganda, it is fact, whether you want to believe it or not. Also, Amsoil's base stocks, like Mobil 1's, are 100% synthetic polyalphaolefins and are not manufactured from crude oil by XOM, Chevron, or BP. They both contain additives and carrier oils (that aid in combining the additives with the base stock) that are derived from petroleum, but the base stocks are 100% synthetic. Pyramid marketing is illegal. If they were doing it they would be gone. That has always confused me. If they are doing nothing illegal, and they are not forcing anyone to become involved, and both they and their dealers are happy with the situation, who the hell are you, me, or anyone else to have a problem with it?
Longgone
John/68 Barracuda & Dart
You guys are having a very good debate here without being nasty, (I`m impressed and compelled to read on), but didn`t this thread start with a fellow simply asking what oil he should put in his /6? Lol!
A
Ace
Guest
I have a problem with it when people like Amsoil use little more than marketing hype to justify premium prices for a product that is not all they say it is or actually worth that premium price in real market terms. Sure, they make great oils. No argument there. But alot of other much lesser priced oils are just as good.
And I also have a problem with it when cult followers such as yourself preach the Amsoil gospel. It is just another way along with questionable marketing tactics to get more money out of the buying public and into the Amsoil exec's pockets, not unlike any other organization that collects money for nothing (premium price for the same or similar product).
It just inflates prices across the board for everyone, whether they are Amsoil customers or not. I think all the oil companies in general are doing very well on their own without Amsoil's help propping up an already way inflated price structure, thank you very much.
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
30wt Valvoline........:thumrigh:
That was easy.
That was easy.
A
Ace
Guest
Rotella gets my vote. Either the conventional 15w/40 or the T-syn 5w/40 if you need it for cold weather.
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