What's the best oils for tappet cam engines?

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use any oil you want then add this to it:
 

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On my /6 I use Rotella T but it is all stock solid lifter 170/6 that might make 105 hp .
 
That's a 2009 article,Rotella has since changed. Most,if not all of the zinc has been removed from it.There is also debate on whether zinc is needed at all,after break in.
To be on the safe side,chose your favorite oil,with your favorite zinc additive.

Mobile1,Valvoline,Castrol,all good choices for oil.
GM,Comp,Lucas,etc for zinc additive.

Then there is special racing oil,that still has zinc in it. The bottle usually says off road only.
Brad Penn,Comp,Joe Gibbs come to mind.

Next question is, synthetic or conventional.....:D
 
Next question is, synthetic or conventional.
That has been the big Question for me lately, wounder wounder :-k
 
I use Valvoline because I can go to any WalMart and buy it. If I am stuck I can just buy any oil to get home. If I was running synthetic I am not sure I could find it if I am out somewhere in the middle of nowhere at a car show.
 
Talk to any of the cam companies. The most critical time for zinc content is during breakin. After that, broke in is broke in. Low zinc motor will not cause camshaft failure after it has been properly broken in with a high content zinc oil. It's not necessary after breakin, although plenty of people do it. While I think it's good insurance, it's not necessary after breakin. That's straight from every major camshaft company I've talked to about it.
 
Still need zinc after break in if using double springs or high spring psi on flat tappet cam.
Roller cams not so much. Last I read rottela still has about 1,200 the minimum needed for an aggressive flat tappet. I use VR1.
 
I have to agree with Rat Rod on this one. Once you break in the cam properly with the Zinc oil go ahead and use your favorite; I use synthetic. That's what I did for my 360 in my Dart when I built it 7 years ago and it's been great ever since. I just purchased a new flat mechanical cam from Lunati for the rebuild on my 360 in the Dart and that is what they say to do. Highly recommended from every cam manufacturer I've spoke with is to take out the inner springs when breaking the cam in and put them back after. This is to make sure that lifter spins and properly seats to the lobe. As for synthetic I have found a private label synthetic from NAPA that I have used for a couple of years that is working great on my Dart and it's so much cheaper than any other synthetic. I use the 15-50.
 
Break in oil for break in, and a ZDDP flat tappet type oil for after break in. I've seen this scenario a number of times. Customer breaks in motor with break in oil. Then switches to ZDDP flat tappet oil. Then cheaps out and changes to what ever Wally Marts got on the shelf, and then the cam loses some lobes. Dozen + times over the years.
Not all synthetic oils are good for flat tappet motors either. Just like their conventional counter parts, some have a good ZDDP additive pkg some don't.
The diesel oils still have a fare ZDDP content, but they have a high detergent level which counteracts the ZDDP benefit to some extent.
I don't get why people still cheap out on something like an oil change. The extra $2 a qrt for a good ZDDP type oil like Valvoline VR1 is going to add a whopping 10 bucks to an average oil change. In the grand scheme of things car related its a drop in the bucket.
 
I went shopping for oil a week or two ago. I had used Kendall 20w50 GT1 high performance in the past and after looking at all the high ZDDP content oils and bought another case of this. Valvoline and similar were 5.99 a quart but the ZDDP was $3.18 a quart.

Extra $2 to $3 a quart costs me $18 to $27 more an oil change with the high capacity oil pan...Gas is already killing me!
 
skrews said:
Break in oil for break in, and a ZDDP flat tappet type oil for after break in. I've seen this scenario a number of times. Customer breaks in motor with break in oil. Then switches to ZDDP flat tappet oil. Then cheaps out and changes to what ever Wally Marts got on the shelf, and then the cam loses some lobes. Dozen + times over the years.
Not all synthetic oils are good for flat tappet motors either. Just like their conventional counter parts, some have a good ZDDP additive pkg some don't.
The diesel oils still have a fare ZDDP content, but they have a high detergent level which counteracts the ZDDP benefit to some extent.
I don't get why people still cheap out on something like an oil change. The extra $2 a qrt for a good ZDDP type oil like Valvoline VR1 is going to add a whopping 10 bucks to an average oil change. In the grand scheme of things car related its a drop in the bucket.
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This ^^^

I don't like additives, because new oils have an insane percentage of detergent in the additive packs.

Detergents clean oil of carbon and other deposits to be left in the filter element.

This sounds fantastic, until you realize that the detergent doesn't discriminate against removing everything it can, including Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, and the other metals used as anti-shearing and pressure protecting agents from the lobes of your cam, faces of your lifters, skirts of your pistons, crank journals and their bearings!

Didn't think it would suck to use ZDDP additive in a conventional oil off the shelf, with a good filter (I use Wix).

The stock, low lift, low spring pressure cam missing 3 of it's lobes that I found when I went to do a carb swap earlier this year thought otherwise.
NEVER AGAIN.

This engine was driven on the street and never raced. It was a higher milage engine, but it was in good tune. I'm convinced that the 70%+ detergent that is in additive packs today, murdered the cam. I couldn't imagine running multiple springs, high tension or high ramp/ high lift.

By the way, the laws were changed some time ago, regarding what is classified as a synthetic oil. If any oil is treated using the same refining process and certain additives, including ester as a minimal additive, it can be sold in the US, labeled as a synthetic oil.

I found this out a while ago, when I stopped using Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is NOT a true synthetic oil, delivered in the United States. It is in other countries, because the laws in other countries require a true synthetic base stock, rather than crude base stock to refine and blend.

If anyone here wants to know what's going on with the oil they prefer, I would urge you to visit http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ and do some homework.

This is the oil I run, now. It's about $90 a case, which gets you 12qts.

http://www.penngrade1.com/Zinc.aspx

By the way, Kenall was bought out by Conoco a while ago. They kept the GT-One name, but Brad Penn's Penn-Grade 1 is the exact same oil as the original Kendall GT-One. It's made in the same refinery, even by the same people. I know this, because I spent about fifteen minutes at Hill Petroleum last month, talking to the Brad Penn divisional sales manager. They use about 25% detergent, which is exactly where you want to be with the additive pack for a street engine, running ANY kind of flat tappet cam, high performance or not.

The way I look at cost of operation is that it's cheaper for me to buy good quality oil, use a good quality filter that doesn't have insane amount of bypass, like Wix (Napa Gold is made by Wix as well) and keep from buying camshafts and keep my crank bearings from wearing camshaft on them. :)

If you are worried about running low on oil in the middle of nowhere, check into what's causing oil consumption, check your oil before you leave and keep a quart in the trunk of your car.
 
skrews said:
Break in oil for break in, and a ZDDP flat tappet type oil for after break in. I've seen this scenario a number of times. Customer breaks in motor with break in oil. Then switches to ZDDP flat tappet oil. Then cheaps out and changes to what ever Wally Marts got on the shelf, and then the cam loses some lobes. Dozen + times over the years.
Not all synthetic oils are good for flat tappet motors either. Just like their conventional counter parts, some have a good ZDDP additive pkg some don't.
The diesel oils still have a fare ZDDP content, but they have a high detergent level which counteracts the ZDDP benefit to some extent.
I don't get why people still cheap out on something like an oil change. The extra $2 a qrt for a good ZDDP type oil like Valvoline VR1 is going to add a whopping 10 bucks to an average oil change. In the grand scheme of things car related its a drop in the bucket.
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X 2:sign7:
 
By the way, Kenall was bought out by Conoco a while ago. They kept the GT-One name, but Brad Penn's Penn-Grade 1 is the exact same oil as the original Kendall GT-One. It's made in the same refinery, even by the same people. I know this, because I spent about fifteen minutes at Hill Petroleum last month, talking to the Brad Penn divisional sales manager. They use about 25% detergent, which is exactly where you want to be with the additive pack for a street engine, running ANY kind of flat tappet cam, high performance or not.
This post above,(with the non zinc based garbage)with a hardened billet flat tappet solid.Cost me a very good running 396. The LIFTERS went flat,not the hardened cam lobes. Ever since then,I pop the money for good oil,or the zinc additive. Kudos on the Penn stuff(the original Kendall GT-1 formula. Went Magnum,and roller.
 
well...

I use Mobil 10w-30 regular oil with hughes engine extreme pressure additive...outside of the moly lube on the cam...that is way they run...

I dont remove the inner springs either for the break in....got a bunch of engines with flat tappets...and none have gone flat yet....
 
70aarcuda said:
well...

I use Mobil 10w-30 regular oil with hughes engine extreme pressure additive...outside of the moly lube on the cam...that is way they run...

I dont remove the inner springs either for the break in....got a bunch of engines with flat tappets...and none have gone flat yet....
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You use 1 bottle of the additive with each oil change? It says 1 pint treats 5 quarts.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?partid=23942
 
I use Brad Penn oil and living in the Northwest so many miles from its refinery, it costs me 68. a case but at least I know what I'm getting in comparison to the huge companies who change their formulas whenever they can save money
 
HotLines said:
I use Brad Penn oil and living in the Northwest so many miles from its refinery, it costs me 68. a case but at least I know what I'm getting in comparison to the huge companies who change their formulas whenever they can save money
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Agreed. Very happy with Brad Penn oil in my 340.
 
Boy I got some history with this one,

When I was young (Broke) I ran whatever oil I came across in my leaker 318. Even recycled oil! It worked, and the truck never died from an oil issue, not even the light filckering when I came to the stop and had to add at least a quart if thats all the money I had, which was usually the case. It may have worn a few things out, but it did keep running. Point, CHANGE YOUR OIL REGULARLY AND KEEP IT FULL. I bet half the posters here have some engine in their household thats a quart low right now. I know mine probably is. But its a toyota, and I could probably use cooking oil in it.

Now, THE OLE LADYS CAR, gets Mobil 1 synthetic. But I am going to read up on that as suggested above. I frowned on synthetics for years, calling them snake oil. Then I tore down a 150 thousand mile engine that had properly been cared for with synthetic oil. I have torn down alot of engines that had petroleum based oils, and alot of them had been taken care of and looked quite good. But they didnt look exactly the same before and after they were put together. That properly cared for synthetic engine blew my mind. I cant remember off the top of my head, but there were things that just should not have been. Parts that just should have had wear and just plain didnt. Hard to explain, but after that I aint running nothing but synthetics. OK thats over. BTW: That engine with no wear was my moms toyota highlander, BEWARE OF WORKING ON ONE OF THOSE, it was amazingly clean inside, but it took volumes one and two of my dirty word books to finish the job.

The cam breakin needs the zinc, with a non synthetic oil. Then change the oil with a non synthetic for a couple of oil changes and the swap to full synthetic without the zinc additive. And the oil needs to be combined with zinc only for a flat tappet cam. Rollers dont. Thats how I do anything since that crazy, rebuilt brand new looking engine. Like I said though, I am gonna read that article about the synthetics, that bums me out about mobil 1.

The way I use synthetics is I buy enough oil to have one quart over the fill up during the change. I also buy an extra filter (usually factory replacement, they are as cheap as anywhere else for the most part these days). After 3000-4000 miles I change the filter and use that extra quart to fill the engine back up. Then at 3000 I change oil again. Keeps the costs relativility the same as non synthetic and cuts down on the work a little. The thing is, I use regular oils till I think the engine is properly broken in then swap to synthetics.

Also, that line about not being able to swap back and forth between synthetic and non synthetic is a line of bull. Only time I ever saw something come up from oil missmatches was with Slick 50. Remember that stuff? I cant tell you how many quarts of that stuff I dumped into engines, and every one of them was at least a quart low. Now that stuff mixed with some certiant oil would fill the oil pan with some sort of candle wax stuff. I never saw it, but my diesel mechanic teacher told me about his daughters car and that issue. And he was skeptical about everything he heard about engines from shadetree mechanics. So I believe him fully, I still wish I new what that man forgot.

Here is one more thing about synthetics. They are saying these days not to mix different types of synthetic COOLANTS. Not sure on that one but I follow the rule just so I dont have to tear one down. But that same toyota of my moms had a water pump go out, which I changed during a timing belt swap. I pulled the old one off and laid it in the bed of my truck next to the new one. When I went back I freaked out. I could not believe it. The new one and the old one looked EXACTLY the same. Brand new, like as cast on both. Only way I could tell the difference was the wear marks on the old ones pulley and the shakey shaft. So I am going to start using that when I do a rebuild.

And last, I stay away from Fram oil filters. Have had alot of problems with those in the past. Not every single one, but enough to make me not use them unless necessary. ONe example was noisy lifters in magnums at the chrysler dealership I worked at for awhile. Swap out the filter and no more noisy lifters. Dont know why, but I also dont know why my Ole Lady washes disposable drinking cups when we have a cabinet full of nice glass cups. The also ever once in a while leaked around the pinch at the gasket plate to housing joint.

Sorry about my long post but I felt like soapboxing it this morning! Dont know why, Im kinda strange like that sometimes.

Hope this helps.
 
'73 318 - using Kendall 5w20 synth.blend.

Noticed a 15 F lower engine temps after the change from 10w40 dino oil.
Think about it, 15F less heat buildup by internal oil-friction.
 
I want to come back to this to say I was WRONG with what I posted. That actually WAS correct information a while back, but evidently, the EPA has legislated more zinc out to the point that you need to keep adding it, or running oil with zinc even after breakin. My apologies. Here's a good read from Comp on it that's up to date. Sorry bout that.

[ame]http://www.compcams.com/Base/pdf/FlatTappetCamTechBulletin.pdf[/ame]
 
Rat Rod, that is what the Brad Penn rep told me, straight up. All modern grade oils have absolutely NO zinc in them, aside from diesel grade oils, which don't have as much as the needed 1500ppm. Even the regular Brad Penn stuff has none in it for modern engines. You want the green stuff (Penn Grade)...

I don't like modern oils because of the high detergents. Not because of the lacking additive content. If I could just add ZDDP, I'd do it all day long, but unless I can find a crude or Group 2 or Group 3 Synthetic base stock oil with low detergent, I'll never do it again.

As for Mobil 1;

Mobil 1 USED to be a Group 2 synthetic base stock that had a great formula additive pack with lower detergent levels, up until sometime early this century. The year escapes me. Castrol Syntec also used to be great stuff, when it was green. It was a Group 3/ Ester as a base stock. Even better than Mobil 1 was. The only oils I know of that use Ester as the base stock now, which is an additive to other true early gen (group 2) synthetics (Royal Purple) is Redline and some lines of Motul. Syntec is now the same story as Mobil 1. Crude base stock with ester and other additives with modern zinc levels and plenty of detergents.

The reason I went with OG Kendall GT1/ Brad Penn is because of it's consistancy and formula. They haven't changed a thing, since it was around in the seventies, because it works great.

I'd also like to see my money going back into a smaller company, if I can help it. They were extremely helpful and informative, when I paid them a visit.

I'm going to give the Lucas 30 weight break in from Summit a whirl for the new cam in the fresh 318. Thanks to Skrews for posting the link and mention, elsewhere. Stuff was cheap.

Also, for what it's worth, one of the more interesting pieces to the conversation I had with the Penn rep, was that he was saying that they are running into a new problem now with high ZDDP oils, in that, they are too high and the companies were getting reports of rust, because Zinc is a corrosive metal. He said the goal for the formula is always 50ppm around 1500 per batch, for the magic number.

Brad Penn also makes trans oils that are soft metal safe and other stuff that I may look into.
 
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