Wheel Cylinder Replacement Help

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MuuMuu101

MuuMuu101

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I need help with replacing my wheel cylinders on my rear 10" drums. This is the first time I'm working on my car and I'm having trouble removing the bolts and hard lines. They looked pretty rusty (as if they weren't touched in 40+ years) so I sprayed some PB Blaster on them and got the rust out but it's still no good. But not only that, I sorta kinda stripped/rounded off the hard line fasteners.

And something I noticed... There are 3/8" bolts on the passenger side and 1/2" bolts on the driver side and none of the driver or passenger side.

Any help or should I just leave it alone? I also have a bad Master Cylinder I need to replace. Trying to get the braking system fixed in time for Fall Fling.

Pictures taken last night. I've been mostly playing with the passenger side. Sorry for the terrible cell phone pictures.

Passenger side:
IMAG0964_zps1f1c1103.jpg

IMAG0966_zps1da4e32e.jpg

IMAG0967_zpsdbabbd71.jpg



Driver Side:
IMAG0968_zps45d35c60.jpg

IMAG0969_zpsf7f3ffcb.jpg

IMAG0970_zps620010fd.jpg


And my damage for the day. This is the passenger side. The driver's side is a little similar:
IMAG0971_zps4a06265e.jpg
 
Most times this is the case. If they won't budge then you may have to put some vice grips on them and try that. Chances are good though when you get them to turn it may very well twist the brake line anyway.

I would just tear into it and replace the wheel cylinders and the lines from the distribution block on the rearend to the individual wheel cylinders, brake lines are reasonably priced. Just make sure you can get the lines as close to what you have now so you don't have to cut and reflare them, unless you have a double flaring tool.

For future reference they make special wenches just for those fittings.
 
Badsport said:
Most times this is the case. If they won't budge then you may have to put some vice grips on them and try that. Chances are good though when you get them to turn it may very well twist the brake line anyway.

I would just tear into it and replace the wheel cylinders and the lines from the distribution block on the rearend to the individual wheel cylinders, brake lines are reasonably priced. Just make sure you can get the lines as close to what you have now so you don't have to cut and reflare them, unless you have a double flaring tool.

For future reference they make special wenches just for those fittings.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I don't have too much time to work on the car this weekend and that's why I didn't pick up brake lines (when I should have) on my way home. And I don't have a double flaring tool on hand. There's one in the shop at my school but I don't want to borrow it.
 
if that is the picture after pb blaster you aren't there yet-- you need a wire brush & go commando on those fittings!!!

you might get lucky-- but use a flare nut wrench to hopefully stop the rounding--- also a tip-- is after the wire brush scrub 7 more blaster soaking-- put the wrench on it & tap it with a hammer-- one good rap in the loosening direction-- it might work!!-- good luck Lawrence
 
VDART said:
if that is the picture after pb blaster you aren't there yet-- you need a wire brush & go commando on those fittings!!!

you might get lucky-- but use a flare nut wrench to hopefully stop the rounding--- also a tip-- is after the wire brush scrub 7 more blaster soaking-- put the wrench on it & tap it with a hammer-- one good rap in the loosening direction-- it might work!!-- good luck Lawrence
Click to expand...

See, with a college student first starting to wrench, I don't have many tools. No wire brush and no flare wrenches. :sad7: I'll soak it some more and see if I can find anything to scrub the crap away. Because I was using the wrench and hammer technique on the bolts and they still weren't budging.
 
a slow force motion just rounds them off, even with a line wrench. Put a quality pair of visegrips on it and knock the crap out of it. Once its broke loose open end wrench or anything.
 
You California guys have it so good, that fitting looks almost new for the age of it compared to the rusted crap just four years old we see in New England.

You may get that fitting lose with vice grips, however chances are real good that you will bugger it up enough so threading it into a new wheel cylinder will be a PIA because those easily deform pinching the tubing. If you do get fitting to thread back into a new cylinder, than it has to be tight enough to hold pressure; a tall order for something you can’t get a wrench onto.

Where you are going to replace the master cylinder, it may be a good time to purchase a tubing wrench, and bleeder wrench they will come in real handy during reassembly and the bleeding phase of the project, or you will be rounding off the bleeders as well.

The best advice given was to replace that line from distribution block. The last thing you want is a weakened point in the tubing in a brake system waiting to fail during a panic stop situation. If the fitting turns and the tubing turns with it, in other words it twists, that line is toast, and needs to be replaced. Brakes have to be done right to be safe.

I have replaced a lot of rusted rounded off fittings where a tubing wrench won’t do the job at the distribution block. Snip off the brake line at the fitting, use a six sided deep socket & ratchet to unscrew the fitting. The new fitting will screw in easily, and with proper tubing wrench you will be able to tighten it enough to stop any leaks.

As for removing the bolts holding cylinders to backing plate, you may have to grind the head off, but a good six sided socket and breaker bar normally gets the job done. Some cylinders have different size bolts holding them depending on manufacture. When you get your cylinders, purchase four new mounting bolts of correct length and size, and save yourself a trip back to the store.
 
Thanks guys. Safety is my #1 priority. I don't have any more time to work on it this weekend but next weekend I may ask my friend over for help since he has far more knowledge, skills, and experience than I do. The new MC is sitting in its box (yes, I know, it needs to be bench bled). I think what I may end up doing is replacing the lines like everyone has been advising. I may need to also replace the ones at the MC since the front reservoir (for the rear brakes) has it's brake fitting mount further forward than the one I have on there. A lot of work needs to be done in so little time. I hope I can bring it to the Fling. If not, maybe in the Spring.
 
MuuMuu101 said:
Thanks guys. Safety is my #1 priority. I don't have any more time to work on it this weekend but next weekend I may ask my friend over for help since he has far more knowledge, skills, and experience than I do. The new MC is sitting in its box (yes, I know, it needs to be bench bled). I think what I may end up doing is replacing the lines like everyone has been advising. I may need to also replace the ones at the MC since the front reservoir (for the rear brakes) has it's brake fitting mount further forward than the one I have on there. A lot of work needs to be done in so little time. I hope I can bring it to the Fling. If not, maybe in the Spring.
Click to expand...

When I get in to trouble with the hard lines at the wheel cylinder it is normally a angle or space problem. If you can get the bolts off the wheel cylinder and the had line off at the block then slide the wheel cylinder out with the line still attached. Then you might be able to get the hard line off the wheel cylinder.
 
Heat them flare nuts up red hot (propane works), penetrate oil, and use your flare nut wrench to back-and-forth until they'll come loose.

This works.
 
Well since he's replacing the wheel cylinders, just cut the line pull the wheel cylinder and get two new pieces of line to run from the distribution block on the diff to the new cylinders. Bleed the brakes, happy motoring.
 
if it is not broken do not fix it especially if you lack money and time.
Check the bleeder screws if you can turn them and bleed your brakes
then put new shoes on there replace your master cylinder and then
bleed the brakes . Then when you can afford it and have the time
replace them. Then follow previous instructions, you might try a 10
dollar propane torch heating siezed bolts up often works wonders .
P.S. dont blow yourself up. Cheers and good luck.
 
Yea if you don't have the cash leave it alone for now do shoes and MC and
go. You really need new lines and maybe new wheel cylinders. Are your wheel cylinders leaking?
 
In Covina, CA you don't even know what real rust is.

Harbor Freight is abundant there and your friend. At the very least get a "brake wrench" for ~$3 which lets you safely remove the shoe springs and reassemble. Wear safety glasses.

As others say, leave the wheel cylinders in for now until you get a double flare tool (buy used on ebay). Without a flare wrench you almost surely will round off the nuts and yours is too late now to save. Going back and forth on a stuck nut helps flow the rust out w/ penetrant.

Peel back the rubber dust covers on the cylinders and see if any fluid. If pretty dry, they are fine. If a lot of fluid, disassemble and look at the bore with backlight. If no deep pits, they are reusuable. Run 220 grit sandpaper around the bore on a rod, ending w/ 600 grit. Maybe start w/ 100 grit if pits. Clean good w/ paper towels and alcohol and blow thru the lines from the MC if you can. If a smooth surface, a $2 cylinder rebuild kit should work. In the future, get a brake hone ($10), though with a complete new cylinder only $6 at rockauto I usually just replace.

When you install the new shoes, look very close at your photo. One shoe has a shorter liner and goes at the front. No instructions in the box. The self-adjusting cable goes at the rear and parts are usually labelled L and R. The adjusting screws vary w/ side so look for the L or R on the internal stem. You can get a "hardware kit" cheap, ~$7/axle at Autozone, which gives you new springs and such.

I use DOT 5 (silicone) fluid so no future rust, but many opinions and mis-information on that out there, so read for yourself.
 
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