wheel not fitting?

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diymirage

diymirage

HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
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(not sure if this belongs in tires, brakes or suspension, so please move it you do know)

ok, 71 duster, origenally with a slant six and manual drum brakes and 14 inch ralleys

i bought a used set of slotted mags, 14X6, small bolt pattern and had them installed today

the guys who installed them told me they snapped a stud, and gave me the adress of a shop that would fix it (on their charge)

when i went to leave i noticed a drag in the driver side front wheel (same one that snapped a stud) and a pulse in the brake pedal like when you have a warped rotor

i turned around and we pulled the wheel of and noticed the drum was pulled tight onto the flange (almost looked like it was way to tight, and 1/4 of an inch too deep on there)
it was pretty clear the drum was making contact with the brake backing plate, so somehow it got too deep on there

we removed the flange and knocked it out of the drum with a hammer and reninstalled it
so far so good
put the drum on, good
put the wheel on, and it did the same thing

(and the guy snapped another stud, so its being towed to the shop now)

any idea what is going on?

could it be the drum i have on there is off?
or would you suspect the rim?

the other side was fine
 
Most likely scenario in my experience.: The factory wheels are designed so that they contact in the hub area of the drum and have a recess in the wheel to clear the outer lip of the brake drum. Aftermarket wheels often have less(or no) recess so the wheel contacts the outer edge of the drum before being drawn tight against the center of the drum and hub. When the wheel contacts the outer edge of the drum the drum is distorted and gives erratic braking. They used to make spacers to set the wheel out just enough to provide clearance but I think those stopped selling in the mid seventies. You may have to fabricate a spacer out of 1/8" (or so) aluminum. Sometimes the aftermarket wheels contact the drum balancing weights that the factory installed on the outer face of the drum too, so look to see if there is contact on the weights.
 
Last edited:
thanks

ill keep all this in mind

the rims were originally on a 70 dart with 10 inch brakes
(not sure what size is on my duster)
 
There were variations in the brake drums too. Some had a pronounced lip of cast material on the outer edge and some had a shallow, more machined outer lip. The 70 Dart may have had one style of drum and your car has the more pronounced lip. Of course if you have the smaller drums the effect would be exaggerated.
 
Most drums will have a balancing weight welded on. Aftermarket wheels, and wheel spacers too, can hit the weight and distort a drum.
 
there were indeed weights on the drum

the car has been towed to the shop, otherwise i would grab some pictures of all of this

i wonder though, why only one side is acting up ?
 
Possibly a replacement brake drum with the more pronounce lip or position/size of the drum weight?
 
after 45 years, i cant imagine those are stock drums on there
but...i also cant imagine replacing only one
 
diymirage said:
there were indeed weights on the drum

the car has been towed to the shop, otherwise i would grab some pictures of all of this

i wonder though, why only one side is acting up ?
Click to expand...
It is possible that lug pattern orientation to slots in slotted wheels caused weight conflict on one and not the other. Just a guess but if this is the case, Clocking might cure it. Fixing a warped drum isn't easy. I wouldn't want wheels that required clocking to mount.
 
diymirage said:
(not sure if this belongs in tires, brakes or suspension, so please move it you do know)

ok, 71 duster, origenally with a slant six and manual drum brakes and 14 inch ralleys

i bought a used set of slotted mags, 14X6, small bolt pattern and had them installed today

the guys who installed them told me they snapped a stud, and gave me the adress of a shop that would fix it (on their charge)

when i went to leave i noticed a drag in the driver side front wheel (same one that snapped a stud) and a pulse in the brake pedal like when you have a warped rotor

i turned around and we pulled the wheel of and noticed the drum was pulled tight onto the flange (almost looked like it was way to tight, and 1/4 of an inch too deep on there)
it was pretty clear the drum was making contact with the brake backing plate, so somehow it got too deep on there

we removed the flange and knocked it out of the drum with a hammer and reninstalled it
so far so good
put the drum on, good
put the wheel on, and it did the same thing

(and the guy snapped another stud, so its being towed to the shop now)

any idea what is going on?

could it be the drum i have on there is off?
or would you suspect the rim?

the other side was fine
Click to expand...

Unless I am misunderstanding something it sounds like the rim is hitting the outside diameter of the brake drum before it comes up against the flange on the axle.
Does it look like this could be the case?
 
TrailBeast said:
Unless I am misunderstanding something it sounds like the rim is hitting the outside diameter of the brake drum before it comes up against the flange on the axle.
Does it look like this could be the case?
Click to expand...

sounds like it
(i wish i had the car here, so i could see)
would this press the outside of the drum down unto the backing plate?
 
I had the same problem with my Aspen slots my drums had weights on them I ordered new drums from Summit that didn't have weights . They aren't very expensive I think that they were like $30.00 each
 
Thanks del, I'll let the mechanic know and have him check into it
 
my brother in law had a set of Keystone Klassics on a 73/74 Dart Sport - front brakes were drums - he could never get them to sit/ride properly. I bought them off of him and put them on a 74 Swinger which also had front drums and had the same problem - it was the weights on the drums the whole time - a few well placed washers and all was good... I never did tell him about the "fix", I was afraid he would want them back.. :lol:
PS: I know it can be expensive, but you should seriously consider putting disc's up front...
 
I tried putting washers behind wheels but the studs were too short then . My drums needed turned anyway so this way no spacers were needed. But either way works . Do you have small or big bolt pattern ?
 
ScampMike said:
my brother in law had a set of Keystone Klassics on a 73/74 Dart Sport - front brakes were drums - he could never get them to sit/ride properly. I bought them off of him and put them on a 74 Swinger which also had front drums and had the same problem - it was the weights on the drums the whole time - a few well placed washers and all was good... I never did tell him about the "fix", I was afraid he would want them back.. :lol:
PS: I know it can be expensive, but you should seriously consider putting disc's up front...
Click to expand...

i want to change over the discs some time
i just havent found the set i can afford yet


Del said:
I tried putting washers behind wheels but the studs were too short then . My drums needed turned anyway so this way no spacers were needed. But either way works . Do you have small or big bolt pattern ?
Click to expand...


small bolt pattern (thats why it took me so long to find a set)
ill call the shop in the morning and tell them to look at the weights on the drums

thanks guys
 
Do not use washers. That can work loose. Wheel to hub should be a continuous flat to flat mounting surface. So many of the magnum wheels now have egg shaped lug holes because those wheels have a formed dimple for each lug hole and not a full circle/surface.
 
diymirage said:
sounds like it
(i wish i had the car here, so i could see)
would this press the outside of the drum down unto the backing plate?
Click to expand...

Oh yea it could.
Drums are made to have the front plate of them flat against the hub and pinched between the hub and wheel.
They are actually very thin, so if the rim inner diameter is contacting the drum before the drum is pinched then it will push the outer part of the drum into the backing plate.
 
thanks guys

i like the idea of the wheel spacers
as soon as i confirm with the shop the weights were the actual problem (or better said, the lack of provision for the weights in the aftermarket wheels) i will see what height spacers i need

then i need to consider to see if the drum is salvageable or warped...i would imagine with the proper spacer it would flatten out any warp there is anyway, correct?


im kind of hands off on this one, since the tire shop send the car to the repair shop and im just kinda playing the waiting game
 
In my experience, proper diameter wheel spacers, cast or billet aluminum, can also land on a drum weight and need a relief cut. This does vary with 9 or 10 inch drums and/or front or rear drums. Just a heads up.
And don't expect a spacer to bring the drum bend back again.
 
9" drums come either way with or with out weights. The guy at Summit actually went and picked me out 2 without weights.
 
Well yeah if a blank just happened to be within whatever tolerance they hold, it wouldn't need a balancing weight. That would be a bit rare though.
 
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