Where is my compression and vacuum??

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halfafish

Damn those rabbits, and their holes!
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As part of my ongoing saga with the truck (Mission Creep on a D-150) I'm looking for guidance from those who know what they're doing, a group that excludes yours truly.

To make a long story short, as noted in my build thread the brand new engine only got 700 miles on it before I spun a couple of bearings - operator error no doubt. So I yanked it back out and completely rebuilt it again. I did a break-in on my buddy's run stand and it ran OK. Bring it home, put it back in the truck and it's a dog when I take it for a test drive. I tune, adjust timing, adjust the carb, re-lash the valves, all to no avail. It's hard to start when hot and will often stall coming into a stop sign.

I was thinking the carb (a Holley 390, freshly rebuilt) is the issue so my buddy that did the work stopped by to check it. There was a check ball for the idle circuit that was stuck so he fixed that, but it still runs like crap. I swap in a known good carb (Edelbrock AVS2 500) and it still runs like crap. Both carbs are boggy, have no power under load, hard to start, etc.

I'm thinking maybe it's a vacuum leak but it has none. I plugged the line to the power brake can, plugged all the ports, and sprayed starting fluid all over the intake, carb base, and carb - no change or RPM increase.

The truck has terrible compression and vacuum. This is a brand new engine with no more than five miles on it and maybe an hour or two running in the shop while I work on things. I checked the head bolt torque to make sure it was all tight, it was good. The rocker arms are tight. The valves are lashed correctly. However, compression is running 90 PSI in every hole, and the vacuum at the manifold fitting is a measly 5-6". The cam is barely bigger than stock so I should have 15" or more vacuum. The VC on the distributor does function correctly when I put a vacuum pump to it, advancing properly but of course with no vacuum it doesn't work at all in the real world. That makes getting the timing set impossible.

I did a leak down test, each hole shows good - no leakage from any valve, and the blow-by from the rings is less than 10%. Nice tight engine, just no compression and no vacuum.

Any suggestions what to look for next? And as if I'm not having enough fun, I have a serious rear main seal leak so I'm going to have to pull the engine again to get that fixed. Before I do, I'm looking for bright ideas what's wrong so if I need to run the engine for diagnostics I can do so before it comes out.

TIA, hopefully there's something I'm missing here to get this turd running right. It seems to me until the compression and vacuum issues are figured out it's not likely to get any better.
 
The only thing I can think of is incorrect camshaft timing somehow. Whether you got it retarded by one tooth, OR if you degreed the cam, maybe you got it too far retarded.
 
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Pull the drivers valve cover & put a dial indicator on the #1 intake valve... Rotate the engine slowly watching the exhaust valve open then close.... As it's closing watch the dial indicator... When it shows maybe .015 movement stop & see if the timing marks on the crank & timing cover line up.. The engine should be at or very close to TDC... If not your cam timing is off..
 
Could it have the wrong pistons? Low compression, down a long way in the bore?
 
Could it have the wrong pistons? Low compression, down a long way in the bore?
That would be all slant sixes. They usually sit .180" down at TDC.
 
here's a hail mary, and i'll admit it's happened to me: is the distributor 180 out?
 
But that would not affect cylinder pressure. Plus, it would not run at all.
true on the pressure, but they'll run 180 out. not well, but it'll make a go of it.

the "ah-ha" moment comes when you've cranked the unit around until the VC hits the firewall and you think: hmmm... i don't remember that....

anyway, is it just my thinking that 90psi cranking compression is dreadfully low?
 
is the distributors mechanical advance working right? whats initial timing? tottle timing? and when dose it come in at??? you degree cam? how you go about it? have you checked timing marks with TDC??
 
here's a hail mary, and i'll admit it's happened to me: is the distributor 180 out?
1 no, just no.jpg
 
This is a leaning tower of power folks, dizzy has a gear on the bottom. I'd start by verifying the balancer mark with a piston stop.
 
Pull the drivers valve cover & put a dial indicator on the #1 intake valve... Rotate the engine slowly watching the exhaust valve open then close.... As it's closing watch the dial indicator... When it shows maybe .015 movement stop & see if the timing marks on the crank & timing cover line up.. The engine should be at or very close to TDC... If not your cam timing is off..

Good idea, I'll check that later today.

Could it have the wrong pistons? Low compression, down a long way in the bore?

Rusty is right on, the pistons are about .175 in the hole, very much normal for a slant.

here's a hail mary, and i'll admit it's happened to me: is the distributor 180 out?

Nope, I checked that already.

I'd start by verifying the balancer mark with a piston stop.

I've done that previously but I'll double check it.

Degree the cam

I think this is where this debacle will wind up going. With the rear main seal leak, I have to pull the engine anyway to get at that. All cam specs and degreeing will be done again while it's out.
 
I agree with Charlie and others, it's like setting your timing by ear instead of using a timing light. Always verify TDC with the balancer and timing tab and always degree the cam.
 
true on the pressure, but they'll run 180 out. not well, but it'll make a go of it.

the "ah-ha" moment comes when you've cranked the unit around until the VC hits the firewall and you think: hmmm... i don't remember that....

anyway, is it just my thinking that 90psi cranking compression is dreadfully low?
I've never in my life experienced that one. Not saying it can't or won't. I've never seen it. I've seen them pop through the carburetor and exhaust but never run. Not that that means anything, cause I sure as heck ain't seed it all. lol
 
true on the pressure, but they'll run 180 out. not well, but it'll make a go of it.

the "ah-ha" moment comes when you've cranked the unit around until the VC hits the firewall and you think: hmmm... i don't remember that....

anyway, is it just my thinking that 90psi cranking compression is dreadfully low?
Yes, that's pretty low. At least it's consistent though which is a good sign.
 
Honestly as a last ditch effort I would advance it by ear and see what happens. See if it starts pinging or just runs better..
But with that compression you're likely just going to have to pull it pull the timing cover pull the pan reseal everything and re degree the cam...
 
And if that doesn't work you can pull it back out and see if it adds a little more torque to the rope that holds your fishing boat in place at the lake...:poke:
 
And if that doesn't work you can pull it back out and see if it adds a little more torque to the rope that holds your fishing boat in place at the lake...:poke:

Haha, Mister Smarty Pants...

You are just jealous because all you own are those 408's. Don't think I haven't caught you on camera sneaking around the shop, trying to get some Slant Love.
 
Haha, Mister Smarty Pants...

You are just jealous because all you own are those 408's. Don't think I haven't caught you on camera sneaking around the shop, trying to get some Slant Love.
??????

1 angry.jpg
 
Any chance it wiped the cam on break in? How’s the oil look?
 
Any chance it wiped the cam on break in? How’s the oil look?

The oil looks good on the dipstick. I'll report back for sure later today when I drain the pan. I'm also going to check lift on each rocker arm to make sure they're the same. If the cam got wiped I'd think there would be variation between the lobes.
 
This is a leaning tower of power folks, dizzy has a gear on the bottom. I'd start by verifying the balancer mark with a piston stop.
i did not catch that. RIF.

likelyhood of it being full out, less likely. certainly sounds like a timing issue, or a timing of events issue. and a dizzy is an easier pull & verify than a chain check.
 
I've never in my life experienced that one. Not saying it can't or won't. I've never seen it. I've seen them pop through the carburetor and exhaust but never run. Not that that means anything, cause I sure as heck ain't seed it all. lol
surprised the hell out of me, to say the least.

do that once and forever more expect to hear: is it 180 out? from your brother, dad and friends anytime you've touched the distributor or it's cranking and not starting.
 
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