wilwood problems

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Is this a power brake car or manual?

Also, when you say squishy you mean pump it up and you don't have a firm pedal or the travel is too long?

How does it stop?

Also very critical to follow with wilwood brakes, especially manual brakes is the bedding process.
 
i have Wilwoods onmy '72 Scamp . I used a master cylinder from a '73-76 Dart/Valiant disc brakes non-power . I bled the m.s. seven times , soft pedal . I bled the system 5 times , soft pedal . I was pulling my hair out . the idiot light would not go out . Finially found that the rear brakes were in need of adjusting tighter . the pedal is still soft but it stops like crazy . Oh, I forgot, I purchased an adjustable brake pedal push rod , too . If I may suggest , drive the car and see how it stops . If it stops great , you are golden .
I'm running rear disk brakes
 

This is after testing the psi which averages 950psi and peeked at around 1100psi and then re bleeding the brakes. Maybe it's a normal pedal travel but at no point do they get real firm.
 
That is terrible!
I assume your pushrod is adjusted correctly?
That looks more like excessive travel, than soft.
but you said that when you cap the lines at the M/C , then the pedal gets hard, right? Does the pedal also then stay up high where it belongs?
 
That is terrible!
I assume your pushrod is adjusted correctly?
That looks more like excessive travel, than soft.
but you said that when you cap the lines at the M/C , then the pedal gets hard, right? Does the pedal also then stay up high where it belongs?
yes it is firm a little to firm and it stays up
 
Oh and I called wilwood again even though I said I wasn't going to. I explained how the pedal felt now and he said "its making 950psi it should stop".
 
Stays up or at the very top? Cuz capped, it is hydraulically locked up and should be hard as a rock immediately that any slack is taken up in the linkage which should be very very little
well when i had the front circuit for the front brakes capped it was hard it went down some and then just got rock hard. Then when I capped of the secondary circuit so only the fronts where being supplied it was soft again.
 
And you have the frontmost reservoir plumbed to the front brakes right? Duh that's what it says,lol.

Well then my next move would be to prove the compensating port is working, and then;
determine if this is a hydraulic issue or a mechanical, to wit; I would C-clamp the front caliper pistons into their bores. If you have more than 1 piston per caliper, then I would push all the pistons back into their bores and fit a solid metal bar between them then pump the brake pedal to clamp it in there. And repeat on the other side; then pedal test.
If still spongy there are only three possibilities; 1) air , or 2) soft hoses, or 3) caliper flex. OK a 4th possibility is cross-talk between the front and rear systems inside the combination valve; but since it didn't happen when the other end was capped, I doubt this.
But if still mega travel, then re-check your compensating port is open.
But if now hard,with nearly no travel; then you have a mechanical issue. Since with multiple pumps in the video, I did not see the pedal come up any higher,I'm doubting mechanical, unless the compensating port ain't working.

When everything is working right, you will have a high hard pedal, using no more than perhaps half the total available pedal-travel, more likely a third. And the reason is so the back-up safety system has room to operate.
 
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And you have the frontmost reservoir plumbed to the front brakes right? Duh that's what it says,lol.

Well then my next move would be to prove the compensating port is working, and then;
determine if this is a hydraulic issue or a mechanical, to wit; I would C-clamp the front caliper pistons into their bores. If you have more than 1 piston per caliper, then I would push all the pistons back into their bores and fit a solid metal bar between them then pump the brake pedal to clamp it in there. And repeat on the other side; then pedal test.
If still spongy there are only three possibilities; 1) air , or 2) soft hoses, or 3) caliper flex. OK a 4th possibility is cross-talk between the front and rear systems inside the combination valve; but since it didn't happen when the other end was capped, I doubt this.
But if still mega travel, then re-check your compensating port is open.
But if now hard,with nearly no travel; then you have a mechanical issue. Since with multiple pumps in the video, I did not see the pedal come up any higher,I'm doubting mechanical, unless the compensating port ain't working.

When everything is working right, you will have a high hard pedal, using no more than perhaps half the total available pedal-travel, more likely a third. And the reason is so the back-up safety system has room to operate.
Ok over my head, lets start with the first thing how do I test the compensating port?
 
master-brake3-jpg.jpg


You see those little holes in the bottom of the reservoirs, those are the C-ports. The pushrod that connects the pedal to the primary piston, has to be adjusted or chosen or made to work whichever, so that when the pedal returns to it's parked position, the ports are all open. This so the fluid can return, and so that as the pads wear, fresh fluid can find it's way down the line..... in compensation... for normal wear. Proving the ports are open is easy if the pistons are properly parked, but you need a helper.
First a warning;
brakefluid softens and wrinkles paint and it only takes a short time; so for this test you will have to cover everything within a 30inch or more radius to prevent expensive paint damage. Keep some Brakleener aerosol handy and plenty of absorbent towels. I will not be responsible for your paint getting damaged.
Part I
Ok, get a flashlight and pop the top off the M/C, then shine the light down on the ports. Have your helper very gently , V e r y gently and s l o w l y begin to push the pedal down. Be prepared to yell "STOP!" and stop means stop and do nothing else, just stop. Ok you should see the brakefluid roiling around in the bottom like water when it begins to boil. This will only happen for a split second as the piston seals pass by the ports. as soon as you have verified one reservoir, yell stop!. And then have your helper slowly return the pedal . Then repeat in the second reservoir. This will prove the ports are open and don't have broken drill bits stuck in them.
Now, if your helper is over zealous and pumps too fast, it is possible for him to make a little fountain in there, which, if it stays in the reservoir,is ok; if it stays in the reservoir.
But if you don't see roiling or fountains, then you will have to take a closer look as to why this is.
Part II
This is a good opportunity to do a second test, but in your case will be of limited interpretation. So let me first explain how it would work in a properly functioning system.
In a properly functioning system; It is possible with two or three pumps to get a high hard pedal. With each pump you can send fluid down the line faster than it can return. If you are watching and then lift off the brake pedal, you will see a little fountain, as the fluid finally is allowed to return.
Now, if it should happen that this properly functioning system had air in the line, then your rapid-pumping would compress the air, and guess what happens when you allow the pedal to return opening the C-ports. Hyup, the little fountains become geysers shooting fluid up to the hood from where it can be reflected in multiple directions.
Now in your system we don't know if this geyser would be from compressed air, or from a mechanical issue, like bent or sticking or wrongly installed pads that are acting like big steel springs.
So, if you try this, figure out a way to prevent the geyser from ruining your paint. If you do this with the calipers removed and the pistons immobilized, and you get a geyser; then, this can only be from trapped air or freakishly soft hoses.. This is a great diagnostic tool.... cuz if you don't get a geyser, then you don't have compressed air!................. and so,IMO, the next move would be to pursue the possibility of a mechanical issue .
 
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View attachment 1715271247

You see those little holes in the bottom of the reservoirs, those are the C-ports. The pushrod that connects the pedal to the primary piston, has to be adjusted or chosen or made to work whichever, so that when the pedal returns to it's parked position, the ports are all open. This so the fluid can return, and so that as the pads wear, fresh fluid can find it's way down the line..... in compensation... for normal wear. Proving the ports are open is easy if the pistons are properly parked, but you need a helper.
First a warning;
brakefluid softens and wrinkles paint and it only takes a short time; so for this test you will have to cover everything within a 30inch or more radius to prevent expensive paint damage. Keep some Brakleener aerosol handy and plenty of absorbent towels. I will not be responsible for your paint getting damaged.
Ok, get a flashlight and pop the top off the M/C, then shine the light down on the ports. Have your helper very gently , V e r y gently and s l o w l y begin to push the pedal down. Be prepared to yell "STOP!" and stop means stop and do nothing else, just stop. Ok you should see the brakefluid roiling around in the bottom like water when it begins to boil. This will only happen for a split second as the piston seals pass by the ports. as soon as you have verified one reservoir, yell stop!. And then have your helper slowly return the pedal . Then repeat in the second reservoir. This will prove the ports are open and don't have broken drill bits stuck in them.
Now, if your helper is over zealous and pumps too fast, it is possible for him to make a little fountain in there, which, if it stays in the reservoir,is ok; if it stays in the reservoir.
But if you don't see roiling or fountains, then you will have to take a closer look as to why this is.
part II
This is a good opportunity to do a second test, but in your case will be of limited interpretation. So let me first explain how it would work in a properly functioning system.
In a properly functioning system; It is possible with two or three pumps to get a high hard pedal. With each pump you can send fluid down the line faster than it can return. If you are watching and then lift off the brake pedal, you will see a little fountain, as the fluid finally is allowed to return.
Now, if it should happen that this properly functioning system had air in the line, then your rapid-pumping would compress the air, and guess what happens when you allow the pedal to return opening the C-ports. Hyup, the little fountains become geysers shooting fluid up to the hood from where it can be reflected in multiple directions.
Now in your system we don't know if this geyser would be from compressed air, or from a mechanical issue, like bent or sticking or wrongly installed pads that are acting like big steel springs.
So, if you try this, figure out a way to prevent the geyser from ruining your paint. If you do this with the calipers removed and the pistons immobilized, and you get a geyser; then, this can only be from trapped air or freakishly soft hoses.. This is a great diagnostic tool.... cuz if you don't get a geyser, then you don't have compressed air!................. and so,IMO, the next move is to pursue the possibility of a mechanical issue .
ok I've had a few drinks tonight, I'm going to have to read this in the morning, cause the words are running together. And yes it took me 5 minutes to type this with all the back spacing and correting.
 
ok I've had a few drinks tonight, I'm going to have to read this in the morning, cause the words are running together. And yes it took me 5 minutes to type this with all the back spacing and correting.
Hey, I don't even have to be drinking for that to happen to me.
Have a pleasant evening
 
They are there are actually 4 bleeders 2 at the top of each and 2 on the bottom, bleeding only the tops.
My front willwood calipers have them both top and bottom. I never messed w/ any willwood stuFf before, and didn`t know any better, but bled them both(top and bottom), and bench bled the 1987 dodge diplomat master cyl before hand. Have never had any problems out of them.
Brakes are not power brake soft , but very acceptable --------about 3/4ish pedal .
 
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