MidnightSwinger
Well-Known Member
It’s the amount that makes the difference. What base oils do they use for diesel oil?
zinc oil useage?
- Thread starter Rapid Robert
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That's because they jumped the gun without reading up. I've never recommended diesel oil. It's just the wrong thing. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Again, more zinc, less power. That’s a FACT.
Not sure on what is used for base oils for diesel oil but it could be Group III, IV or V base oils or any blend of those three depending what the intended use of the oil is. And the decision on what base oil(s) to use and in what ratios dictates what the additive pack will look like.
If diesel oil was the **** it would be in every Pro Stocker and Comp car running. It ain’t.
Companies like LAT and Torco make 20 plus engine oils. That’s not counting the various grades of oil.
They don’t do that because it’s a better business plan. It’s not. Each oil fits a specific application and then you narrow down the grade.
MidnightSwinger
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree, but what is more? What’s the PPM is your favorite gas oil vs my choice of diesel oil(test at ~1100 ppm)
Your answer on the base oil doesn’t support your claim that it is different from a gas engine. Those are the same base oils that a gas engine use. What make the difference is conventional vs synthetic or blend.
A 10w30 that’s rated for gas and diesel, with a similar PPM of ZDDP will have no ill effect on a gas engine.
I ain’t saying diesel oil is going to suck your knee caps through your pee hole, but given the right viscosity and ZDDP content, it’s going to get the job done.
I'm only going to say this one more time, VRI and rest at ease.
Diesel oil is made for diesels.
No need to reinvent the wheel, it is made to be round not square. lol
closer to 275 degs and higher.
harvenator
A fish called Wanda
Royal Purple HPS (HI performance street) has extra zddp in it. I run it in my Harleys.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Might be, but come on now. I've never run the stuff (even when it had elevated zinc levels years ago), but there was a time when even you referred to Rotella as a 'fine suggestion.'
Well, I was wrong. Done it before and I'll do it again.
autopar3000
Well-Known Member
This is a thread about engine oil, there's no room for proof or evidence here.
Seriously though, I don't know about zinc (ZDDP) costing power, we're talking about 800 ppm probably being too low for a flat tappet engine and 2200 ppm probably being too high to run consistently. That's parts per MILLION. A 1400 difference in parts per million is not a huge difference to the overall composition of the oil when those parts are microscopic. From a wear package perspective it's a huge difference, but I don't see how an engine is going to lose measurable horsepower from that.
But using MORE oil costs power, that's for sure:
Hum phosphorus, I wonder, too much, a parts killer? Zinc?
Yes, that's right. 1200 ppm is the sweet spot for street cars where the oil might stay in the sump for months or longer. The ZDDP can become acidic over time and consume the base additive meant to counteract acids that occur as byproducts of combustion. Excessive amounts of ZDDP have been shown to cause pitting and spalling on engine parts. That's why some high content ZDDP racing oils will say "not for passenger car use" on the label. If you mis-use the product, any damage is your fault not the manufacturer's.
And.....most all my old cars engines are already woreout!!! 
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Keep telling yourself that diesel oil is good for you. Because it's not.
I'm not a tribologist but I have been dealing with oils since before I switched to alcohol fuel in 1988. We had issues running alcohol with certain oils. So I needed to figure out why.
You are far too fixated on ZDDP and how many PPM you need. Like I said, more is NOT better and the minimum PPM you want to know is based on base oil selection, intended use of the oil, fuel being used and any OTHER secondary lubrication regime the tribologist may use.
Zinc is a consumable. So is the phosphorus that makes the zinc work. Certain base oils may not do well with a certain PPM of zinc. So they adjust the additive package to account for that.
One oil may only need 1200 PPM and another 1500 PPM to do the same job.
Buying an oil based on ZDDP PPM is like buying a cylinder head or carb based solely on CFM ratings. Don't do it. But you will because people swear by diesel oil.
There are far more important factors than ZDDP percentage.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Yes. Go look around. Zinc is a KNOWN power eater.
Or better yet, spend your own money testing oil on a dyno and learn it for yourself.
Is it the Zinc or phosphorus that robs power and eats parts
MidnightSwinger
Well-Known Member
It’s obvious reading what you write that you are not a tribologist, you don’t have to keep saying it.
I said I would contact the tech guy at Shell the maker of Rotella, and ask about MY case of using conventional Rotella T4 15-40. I told him I am not a RACER, I use premium pump gas, no alcohol, I just don't want to not damage my engine. He said that is their product he recommends.
So it will work for me as it has been.
Is there a better flat tappet oil? Maybe so/ Could I afford it. Maybe...mayne not!
So it will work for me as it has been.
Is there a better flat tappet oil? Maybe so/ Could I afford it. Maybe...mayne not!
Scody21
Just send it
Penn Grade or Driven is all we use. The Cosworth motors (Ford DFV, and Ford Kent block based 4bangers) my brother builds spin up past 10,000 + RPM for 20 hours with solid OHC flat tappets, during tare-down the bearing look like new and there is times he’s tempted to reuse the bearing. All I’m saying is he has been using Penn grade for 20 plus years in these motors, never had a problem from the oil. which BTW the DFV costs 60 grand for a rebuild and 150 grand for a new one, all trusted to 10 dollar a quart oil… were more worried about a part failure than which oil to run…
^^^ I think the Shell website mentions they make the Penn?
But I know never use a Fram oil filter or my engine will quickly blow up!!
But I know never use a Fram oil filter or my engine will quickly blow up!!
Shell recommends Rotella because they don't offer a product in North America whose primary application is gasoline OHV flat tappet engines. The last one they had was Quaker State Defy 10W-40. Because it was a xxW-40, it was allowed to have the higher level of ZDDP and still carry the API SN rating. The xxW-30 and lighter oils had the ZDDP limit. That product was discontinued a few years ago. Rotella will work, but it is a compromise and there are better choices at around the same price point. Mobil1 FS 0W-40 is widely available, priced very competitively and has 1100 ppm of ZDDP.
Shell owns Pennzoil. DA Lubes of Indiana owns Penn Grade. That used to be Brad Penn, made in Bradford PA at the old Kendall facility. It may still be made there, but I don't know.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Zinc eats power but saves parts. It's a balancing act to get the best life with the least power loss.
The phosphate is what is attracted to hot metal surfaces and it carries the zinc with it. Both are consumable items. Synthetic base stocks don't wear out. The additive package gets used up.
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