Zinc

-

moparz

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Zinc with a C has recently been taken out of the Rotella T due to EPA crap but the only off the shelf OIL that still contains zinc is Valvoline RACING oils comp cams recomended Rotella up until it dropped the zinc I work for a NAPA store and keep up with some of the finest REPS in the N.W. thanks
 
Welcome to FABO moparz. Yes they`ve been talking about doing that for some time. You can still find oils like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn Grade 1 that have the proper amount of ZDDP for flat tappet cam engines.
 
Just add stp oil treatment to any oil you choose...that's what's in it!

Richard Petty said, "Use it! I do!"
 
I have done a little more reading on the zinc and phosphate additives. STP does have some but it's mostly just thick oil that will increase viscosity. That could be good and it could be bad...depends on your engines needs and what you start with (engine oil viscosity).

I found that Redline Break-in Oil Additive is a better source of ZDDP. Because it is very concentrated, you only have to add a small amount to an oil change and that will bring your levels up safely.
Check out the chart at the bottom of this page:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1600403
 
i thought the Rottela was still in the 1200 ppm range down from around 1400ppm, 1200 would still be good for engines with a mild cam. maybe they dropped lower??????
 
i thought the Rottela was still in the 1200 ppm range down from around 1400ppm, 1200 would still be good for engines with a mild cam. maybe they dropped lower??????
Yes Rotella dropped to a lower level a couple years ago I was told by the WIX filter rep.
 
I don't get it. I understand the break in reasons. But once an engine is broken in the slippery the oil the better. So a lifter, bearings, etc all ride on a hydraulic wedge of oil (except at startup when you have no oil pressure.) Once your wear pattern is established slippery should be better and cause less wear on your camshaft and bearings.
With that in mind it would follow that synthetic, regardless of zinc content, would be the best thing for an established engine. As long as the hydraulic wedge is doing it's job, I can't understand what roll zinc would play in the life of your engine past break in.

Is it possible that the metal that they use for aftermarket camshafts is too soft for modern oil? You could get away with it because the oil would cover up the hardness or lack off used in the camshaft?

Dan...
 
No. Pretty much every modern engine uses rollers. Flat tappets need it to live, period. A viscosity of a higher number helps but the ZDDP is where its at....in the right dosage!
Diesel oil is overloaded with detergents, for our app.
A conventional or synthetic oil of the correct weight with the correct additive is best for a flat tappet equipped engine.

Yes! Over 2000 ppm (I'm not sure whether Zn or P, use Zn to be safe since it's ~10% higher) can attack camshaft lobes and cause catastrophic chunking. Be very careful with these additives. For example, ZDDPlus has 71800ppm Zn, 51500 ppm P. 30ml in 5qts will raise Zn ~450ppm, P300ppm. In a somewhat typical fairly weak 600ppm SM oil, that will raise Zn/P to "safe" levels of ~1100/900. Certainly add no more than 1/2 bottle (60ml) to get levels up to ~1600/1200. Remember, many Mobil 1s as an example are 900/800 at a minimum, HDEOs range from 900/800 (some CJ4s) to 1400/1300 (some CI4s).
STP was analyzed on the 1st page of the sticky of VOAs. It's <2000ppm undiluted and comes in a vehicle of very thick (~105 CsT @ 100 C.) oil. If you want to raise Zn/P carefully, use one of the more potent single-ingredient ones like ZDDPlus or Redline, know exactly what its' concentration is AND your oil's concentration, and do your sums carefully, recheck at least once. Too much of a good thing is very bad!
Maybe download (for $15) and read SAE technical article 2004-01-2986 "How much ZDP is enough", first.

Thats from the site I posted earlier.
 
I used Spectro motorguard, conventinal 10w40.

Their bottles are clearly marked 1800 PPM of zinc and phosporous where the Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs and valvoline VR-1 don't.

Also the spectro stuff is mixed in smaller batches not manifold large quantities thus ensuring quality concentrations in their batches.
Each bottle is labeled with the batch # they came from.

http://www.performanceoilstore.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R.MG14
 
I`ve read the same thing that Mopar Dave said. Too much ZDDP can be as bad as not enough. An overdose can cause gauling on cams. Flat tappet cams are cast iron which is very porous. Seen under a microscope these cams look like the surface of the moon. The small particles of zinc embed themselves in the nooks and crannies of the iron and help to smooth out the lobes. Modern roller cams are cut from steel billets and to start with are much harder and smoother surfaces and of course use rollers on the lifters instead of direct contact as found with flat tappet cams. One must remember that zinc is a metal and if used correctly, can help with the smooth operation of flat tappet cams/lifters. On the flip side you wouldn`t pour a jar of iron filings in your engine, so go easy with the ZDDP and find an oil that`s formulated correctly and skip the guesswork.
 
If you have a stockish cam and valve springs once you have broken them in the ZDDP levels in current SM oils are sufficient. It's big cams with stiff springs that the 800 ppm of current oil is not enough.

BTW, Valvoline VR-1 comes in two flavors SM rated and non rated. In my area all the VR-1 I see on the shelf is SM rated. If it has the SM rating then the ZDDP is down around 800 ppm.
 
So let me get this straight...an older engine with a flat tappet cam that is waaay broken in still needs the zinc even if I'm using a full synthetic oil?
 
Not only that but most muscle cars are not driven much and the zinc helps the oil stick to the moving parts while the car sits for extended periods of time.
 
So let me get this straight...an older engine with a flat tappet cam that is waaay broken in still needs the zinc even if I'm using a full synthetic oil?


All engines with a flat tappet cams were designed with the ZDDP levels at double what they are now. if you use conventional or synthetic, you still don't have the protection that the engineers who designed it counted on.
The higher the spring pressures and the more aggressive the cam lobe, the more necessary it becomes.

this page has a chart from redline:
http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/ZDDP.html
If you add just a small amount of redline break-in additive to your oil you will bring the levels up to the correct amount.:read2:
 
So let me get this straight...an older engine with a flat tappet cam that is waaay broken in still needs the zinc even if I'm using a full synthetic oil?

If it's a stock cam and springs no any SM rated oil is fine. The difference between the oil tht was current when your car was new and the current limits is 1200 to 800. Every article I have seen that was written by an actual oil company engineer have all stated that the current levels in SM rated oil are adequate for stock flat tappet cams and lifters.
 
-
Back
Top