**600hp sbm block limit? Or is it bs!!**

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Update on this topic. I just installed a single turbo on my 410ci small block with 9:1 Compression. It has a stock 360 block. The motor makes about 520/520 hp/tq NA. The turbo is a 88mm 114ar Dual Scroll unit that is good to 1300hp. First try at 3500rpm on the Transbrake it made 8psi which is too much I am thinking. It has a 5" exhaust to the firewall to a 4" down to 4" Oval at the bottom of the car to a tweek chamber, it is basically a big muffler with no guts in it, then out to dual 3" exhaust all the way to the bumper.

This one has a CSU e85 Carb with 4 bowls & 4 needle & seats.

After tuning I am sure it will make 1000hp to the tires. I am not going for Max Power on this one. This is my street ***** in my Avatar.

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For you guys that are afraid............

I forgot to say.. YES I still have the 2 stage progressive NOS Controler hooked up with a HOT bottle in the trunk!

LMAO:poke:
 
How does 8.80’s at 153 in 3270 pound street car on 10psi sound?

Sounds pretty good but you aren’t Mad Dart. Here’s my thinking on an 8.80 power adder build. It’s not a good bracket car and it sure as heck isn’t fast enough for the heads up game. So technically it’s a test n tuner build. Street cars are just that. Car cruise cars and guys that like to talk about their builds at car shows.
 
Sounds pretty good but you aren’t Mad Dart. Here’s my thinking on an 8.80 power adder build. It’s not a good bracket car and it sure as heck isn’t fast enough for the heads up game. So technically it’s a test n tuner build. Street cars are just that. Car cruise cars and guys that like to talk about their builds at car shows.
Actually it was very consistent and could easily be bracket raced. If you can stand doing that. I used to bracket race jist not my thing anymore. That 10psi was good for 850 at the wheels. At 20 psi it made 1200 although I never ran it at that level. I’m not sure why you care who answers your question. Oh and there are plenty of things to do with my “car cruise cars” lol! Man tell me your a jerk without telling me!
 
Spending all that money and not buying a good block is foolish.

They may live but bet all you have your ring seal is compromised, you have to run excess clearances because the main tunnel is moving all over the place, head gasket sealing is also problematic.

I guess the entire world is stupid buying upgraded blocks. I can’t count the number of split bores, blown out main lines, compromised head gaskets and shitty ring seal with factory locks on 550-600 hp stuff.

Just because it hasn’t shat itself all over the ground doesn’t mean it’s right.

Running production blocks with power levels over about 550 hp is just not financially smart. BTDT. Still see it to this day. And not just on Chrysler ****. Got a BBC in the shop, stock block. Guy says it made 650 with a 250 shot. I don’t know that because I didn’t want to run it over a dyno before I took it apart to see where it was since he pulled it several years ago.

I took it apart and he killed the top rings, blew the bores out of it (took .0065 to clean it up and it still isn’t very purdy), knocked the head gaskets out, and scuffed 3 pistons and was getting after the other 5.

All of that is 100% related to his flexible block at that power level. The pistons went in on the high side of clearance and he was still getting after them. That means the bores are moving all over hell.

Im going to fix it as best I can, put it on the pump and tune it and see if he can get a year out of it. I told him it was block time, but he doesnt have the money for it now, but he has the money to pay me and kick the cam down the road. Spending bad money after bad money.

Just plain stupid. Being a penny pinching miser isn’t a smart move doing this type of stuff.
 
Spending all that money and not buying a good block is foolish.

They may live but bet all you have your ring seal is compromised, you have to run excess clearances because the main tunnel is moving all over the place, head gasket sealing is also problematic.

I guess the entire world is stupid buying upgraded blocks. I can’t count the number of split bores, blown out main lines, compromised head gaskets and shitty ring seal with factory locks on 550-600 hp stuff.

Just because it hasn’t shat itself all over the ground doesn’t mean it’s right.

Running production blocks with power levels over about 550 hp is just not financially smart. BTDT. Still see it to this day. And not just on Chrysler ****. Got a BBC in the shop, stock block. Guy says it made 650 with a 250 shot. I don’t know that because I didn’t want to run it over a dyno before I took it apart to see where it was since he pulled it several years ago.

I took it apart and he killed the top rings, blew the bores out of it (took .0065 to clean it up and it still isn’t very purdy), knocked the head gaskets out, and scuffed 3 pistons and was getting after the other 5.

All of that is 100% related to his flexible block at that power level. The pistons went in on the high side of clearance and he was still getting after them. That means the bores are moving all over hell.

Im going to fix it as best I can, put it on the pump and tune it and see if he can get a year out of it. I told him it was block time, but he doesnt have the money for it now, but he has the money to pay me and kick the cam down the road. Spending bad money after bad money.

Just plain stupid. Being a penny pinching miser isn’t a smart move doing this type of stuff.
Well up until now aftermarket blocks were hard to get. It wasn’t a matter of penny pinching. I have a nitrous car with a stock block 340 makes 900whp in a heavy street car. Its been running without a refresh for 18 years and has easily 400 passes on it. It has perfect ring seal. All that you listed is front detonation. Aftermarket blocks are more tolerant to detonation. Pretty simple. And the purpose of this thread is if you don’t have the 5k for an aftermarket block don't be afraid to live your life.
 
Well up until now aftermarket blocks were hard to get. It wasn’t a matter of penny pinching. I have a nitrous car with a stock block 340 makes 900whp in a heavy street car. Its been running without a refresh for 18 years and has easily 400 passes on it. It has perfect ring seal. All that you listed is front detonation. Aftermarket blocks are more tolerant to detonation. Pretty simple. And the purpose of this thread is if you don’t have the 5k for an aftermarket block don't be afraid to live your life.
Well up until now aftermarket blocks were hard to get. It wasn’t a matter of penny pinching. I have a nitrous car with a stock block 340 makes 900whp in a heavy street car. Its been running without a refresh for 18 years and has easily 400 passes on it. It has perfect ring seal. All that you listed is front detonation. Aftermarket blocks are more tolerant to detonation. Pretty simple. And the purpose of this thread is if you don’t have the 5k for an aftermarket block don't be afraid to live your life.
Well up until now aftermarket blocks were hard to get. It wasn’t a matter of penny pinching. I have a nitrous car with a stock block 340 makes 900whp in a heavy street car. Its been running without a refresh for 18 years and has easily 400 passes on it. It has perfect ring seal. All that you listed is front detonation. Aftermarket blocks are more tolerant to detonation. Pretty simple. And the purpose of this thread is if you don’t have the 5k for an aftermarket block don't be afraid to live your life.


How sure are you your ring seal is even good? Unless you get it under load on a dyno or in the car with a data logger and a blowby meter you don’t know what you have. And it’s not all detonation. I doubt your ring seal is perfect because that is impossible, but I’m betting with a blowby meter youd be shocked.

All I’ve seen in this thread is a bunch of guys pushing parts past their design limits by an order of magnitude and getting lucky.

Fear has nothing to do with it. It’s experience and brains. I’m betting if I pulled your engine down I’d see the bearings showing the main line moving. I see it all the time. Open up the clearance and it will live, but is it right? Not hardly.

Being a cheap skate and bragging about it isn’t cool. I realize I’m in the minority here and I don’t care. Guys running twin turbos and prochargers and spending big bucks on heads and everything else and skimping on the biggest piece of the engine is foolish. Just dumb risk IMO.

So no myths were busted here. Just more chest thumping by guys getting lucky.

Its 2024. It’s time to step out of running 1960’s and 70’s used up junk. Have some pride in what you do.

When this BBC ***** itself (and it will because he is going to lean on it) then he can buy a block and a crank and rods and do it right.

Not even the mighty big block Chevy is immune from production block shortcomings and failures.
 
Ok, all have heard all this "talk" that a SBM Block has a limit of 600HP before it Grenades, as far as I know it is all BS. I am not saying the it is not true but would like some actual proof from an end user.

Post your Broken Block Pictures along with a Story as to How it actually did Fail or Break and at What Power Level.


Wholly crap this post started back in 2011. Now I gotta go back and read everything to see if it ever made it to the track.
 
How sure are you your ring seal is even good? Unless you get it under load on a dyno or in the car with a data logger and a blowby meter you don’t know what you have. And it’s not all detonation. I doubt your ring seal is perfect because that is impossible, but I’m betting with a blowby meter youd be shocked.

All I’ve seen in this thread is a bunch of guys pushing parts past their design limits by an order of magnitude and getting lucky.

Fear has nothing to do with it. It’s experience and brains. I’m betting if I pulled your engine down I’d see the bearings showing the main line moving. I see it all the time. Open up the clearance and it will live, but is it right? Not hardly.

Being a cheap skate and bragging about it isn’t cool. I realize I’m in the minority here and I don’t care. Guys running twin turbos and prochargers and spending big bucks on heads and everything else and skimping on the biggest piece of the engine is foolish. Just dumb risk IMO.

So no myths were busted here. Just more chest thumping by guys getting lucky.

Its 2024. It’s time to step out of running 1960’s and 70’s used up junk. Have some pride in what you do.

When this BBC ***** itself (and it will because he is going to lean on it) then he can buy a block and a crank and rods and do it right.

Not even the mighty big block Chevy is immune from production block shortcomings and failures.
Thats weird, I must get lucky constantly. I have torn down my motors for various reasons and have yet to see this mysterious “main line moving” you speak of. I have seen it in other motors when they detonate. Smart people know how to tune their stuff. Ignorant people resort to name calling when their arguments don't work out. I guess reading isn't your strong point. Anyways have a nice day and I am proud of you for being able to afford a 5k block.
 
Thats weird, I must get lucky constantly. I have torn down my motors for various reasons and have yet to see this mysterious “main line moving” you speak of. I have seen it in other motors when they detonate. Smart people know how to tune their stuff. Ignorant people resort to name calling when their arguments don't work out. I guess reading isn't your strong point. Anyways have a nice day and I am proud of you for being able to afford a 5k block.

What names? Do what you want. Just don’t expect everyone to think what you do is all that and then some.

Blaming tuning for the main tunnel moving is at best weak.

Look at every aftermarket block ever. When you do look and see where all the extra materiel goes. They aren’t doing the weight just because. So let’s talk it through.

It goes into the bores. Why? Because they move. Production blocks are made for just that. Production stuff. If the bores are a bit thin it won’t matter when grandma is just driving to church on nice Sundays.

Or, the alternative is all the racers who want upgraded blocks want thicker bores because they don’t move as much. And ring seal is better because they have actually tested it. Of course, we could all say these guys are stupid and can’t tune and that’s why ring seal is compromised. I wouldn’t say that because I’m not that arrogant.

They add materiel to the main webs and pan rails. Is that just added weight, bragging rights or just because? No, it’s because the main tunnels move around like crazy. If you can reduce that, you can tighten your oil clearance, run thinner oil and make more power without killing bearings. It is added to the pan rails so when you add 4 bolt caps the block can handle the added load the pan rails see. On top of that, most aftermarket blocks come with at minimum ductile iron caps. Why? Because the caps walk and flex and move all over the place. Some use aluminum. The big spenders get billet steel caps with much more section area. The cap makes the block stronger.

But, according to you that’s because these guys (myself included) can’t tune so we beat the **** out of everything with detonation and such. We are that stupid I guess. Maybe I should pay you to tune my stuff so I can go back to production blocks.

Where else? They add materiel to the decks. Why? Because it’s ***** to keep gaskets sealed with thin decks. And you have much more room to set deck heights without compromising gasket sealing.

Of course, we all tune like crap and that’s why gaskets fail.

Thats just the facts. Like I said, ring seal, bearing life and gasket failures is why they make aftermarket blocks.

No names, just the plain truth.

What is comical is that you accuse me of not being able to tune and yet, I have given you the facts of aftermarket blocks.

Oh yeah, there is also the materiel used in them. But that doesn’t matter either because tuner can use any old block that comes long.
 
What names? Do what you want. Just don’t expect everyone to think what you do is all that and then some.

Blaming tuning for the main tunnel moving is at best weak.

Look at every aftermarket block ever. When you do look and see where all the extra materiel goes. They aren’t doing the weight just because. So let’s talk it through.

It goes into the bores. Why? Because they move. Production blocks are made for just that. Production stuff. If the bores are a bit thin it won’t matter when grandma is just driving to church on nice Sundays.

Or, the alternative is all the racers who want upgraded blocks want thicker bores because they don’t move as much. And ring seal is better because they have actually tested it. Of course, we could all say these guys are stupid and can’t tune and that’s why ring seal is compromised. I wouldn’t say that because I’m not that arrogant.

They add materiel to the main webs and pan rails. Is that just added weight, bragging rights or just because? No, it’s because the main tunnels move around like crazy. If you can reduce that, you can tighten your oil clearance, run thinner oil and make more power without killing bearings. It is added to the pan rails so when you add 4 bolt caps the block can handle the added load the pan rails see. On top of that, most aftermarket blocks come with at minimum ductile iron caps. Why? Because the caps walk and flex and move all over the place. Some use aluminum. The big spenders get billet steel caps with much more section area. The cap makes the block stronger.

But, according to you that’s because these guys (myself included) can’t tune so we beat the **** out of everything with detonation and such. We are that stupid I guess. Maybe I should pay you to tune my stuff so I can go back to production blocks.

Where else? They add materiel to the decks. Why? Because it’s ***** to keep gaskets sealed with thin decks. And you have much more room to set deck heights without compromising gasket sealing.

Of course, we all tune like crap and that’s why gaskets fail.

Thats just the facts. Like I said, ring seal, bearing life and gasket failures is why they make aftermarket blocks.

No names, just the plain truth.

What is comical is that you accuse me of not being able to tune and yet, I have given you the facts of aftermarket blocks.

Oh yeah, there is also the materiel used in them. But that doesn’t matter either because tuner can use any old block that comes long.


So what would be your max limit using a stock 360 block.
 
What names? Do what you want. Just don’t expect everyone to think what you do is all that and then some.

Blaming tuning for the main tunnel moving is at best weak.

Look at every aftermarket block ever. When you do look and see where all the extra materiel goes. They aren’t doing the weight just because. So let’s talk it through.

It goes into the bores. Why? Because they move. Production blocks are made for just that. Production stuff. If the bores are a bit thin it won’t matter when grandma is just driving to church on nice Sundays.

Or, the alternative is all the racers who want upgraded blocks want thicker bores because they don’t move as much. And ring seal is better because they have actually tested it. Of course, we could all say these guys are stupid and can’t tune and that’s why ring seal is compromised. I wouldn’t say that because I’m not that arrogant.

They add materiel to the main webs and pan rails. Is that just added weight, bragging rights or just because? No, it’s because the main tunnels move around like crazy. If you can reduce that, you can tighten your oil clearance, run thinner oil and make more power without killing bearings. It is added to the pan rails so when you add 4 bolt caps the block can handle the added load the pan rails see. On top of that, most aftermarket blocks come with at minimum ductile iron caps. Why? Because the caps walk and flex and move all over the place. Some use aluminum. The big spenders get billet steel caps with much more section area. The cap makes the block stronger.

But, according to you that’s because these guys (myself included) can’t tune so we beat the **** out of everything with detonation and such. We are that stupid I guess. Maybe I should pay you to tune my stuff so I can go back to production blocks.

Where else? They add materiel to the decks. Why? Because it’s ***** to keep gaskets sealed with thin decks. And you have much more room to set deck heights without compromising gasket sealing.

Of course, we all tune like crap and that’s why gaskets fail.

Thats just the facts. Like I said, ring seal, bearing life and gasket failures is why they make aftermarket blocks.

No names, just the plain truth.

What is comical is that you accuse me of not being able to tune and yet, I have given you the facts of aftermarket blocks.

Oh yeah, there is also the materiel used in them. But that doesn’t matter either because tuner can use any old block that comes long.
Finally you see my point. You have issues because clearly you dont know how to tune lol
 
So what would be your max limit using a stock 360 block.

It depends. No more than 600 for a relatively low rpm drag engine. For a circle track engine 500. Maybe 525. If you want it to live.

And that’s figuring reasonable compression ratios, like 12:1. Up the compression ratio, the rpm, the stroke or a combination of them all and it goes down quick.

A 550 8,000 rpm stock stroke 340 I wouldn’t not do with a stock block. A 650 6,000 rpm 3.75 stroke would make me cringe, but if I was dirt poor and eating crackers I would do it. After that, I figure out how to get my income up so I could afford to race or find another hobby.

Of course, ring seal and main bearing life would certainly be compromised in those scenarios.
 
So what was the consensus after all this ?

If you want to be a serious racer you want a 408 that makes less than 550 or go Ritter and be a Superstar Racer!

If you like to cruise your car and talk about your car to all your friends then by all means build a 600+ hp LA. I did back in 2008-9. 408 with a Procharger and a TKO. It made 650 hp and 598 lbft. I fell into the "cruise and look cool" . Believe me, if I EVEN wanted to do that drag racin' non-sense I could have funded a W-something and done real good.

Do what you want with your dollars. Personally, I chose to go with an early casting 360. I chose to do a main girdle, balanced, corrected, forged, big valved, bushed, hyd. rollered, oil work, blah, blah , blah.
You want to take a stock block to high horsepower levels then you have to cross every t. I would love to redo that engine with EFI because the best way to cross that t back then was a blow through. It relies on water/methanol and I would love to make an intercooler fit in front of a 70 'cuda.

Life is what you make it.
 
If you want to be a serious racer you want a 408 that makes less than 550 or go Ritter and be a Superstar Racer!
I agree. A stock block is fine for much of what street and street strip guys do. If you want to drag race a stock block, I see no issue with a stock block up to a certain point. That’s what this thread was really about from my point of view & of course the actual question proposed by the threads title.

You can certainly race a stock block. It’s just not going to be in a heads up category where extreme power levels are required. While 600hp maybe extreme for some, it’s still 2000 hp short of serious heads up racing.

The old known fact that some people seem to refuse to follow is the lighter the car the easier it is to go fact isn’t followed. Im still meeting people with small block powered fully loaded B Body cars telling me they’re upset for not getting into the 9’s. They skip the facts and advice.

While I do think 600hp ought to get you going really very well, you have to at some point start thinking about what it is exactly you have and the goal line you are trying to cross. Where this line is, I don’t know. But I went out and picked up a race block.

Then there is also not just the amount but frequency, there is the severity amount of its use.

If you like to cruise your car and talk about your car to all your friends then by all means build a 600+ hp LA. I did back in 2008-9. 408 with a Procharger and a TKO. It made 650 hp and 598 lbft. I fell into the "cruise and look cool"
Bad *** build my man.
You want to take a stock block to high horsepower levels then you have to cross every t.
Cross every “T” & dot every “I” for sure. Then again, same for a racing engine.
 
Wholly crap this post started back in 2011. Now I gotta go back and read everything to see if it ever made it to the track.
You crack me up. Yes, I made it to the track that’s my car in the avatar. You seem smart but more of a Smart *** and a bigger jerk than me!

Get to reading! Lol
 
You crack me up. Yes, I made it to the track that’s my car in the avatar. You seem smart but more of a Smart *** and a bigger jerk than me!

Get to reading! Lol

I work hard at being a smart azz. It keeps people in line. Lol. Let’s go have a beer and some wings.
 
So what would be your max limit using a stock 360 block.
Well I see 1222hp to the tire and live in this thread. So where is the limit? I’d say that’s pretty stout. Unless I missed it, I don’t think anybody’s posted a blown up stock block yet at 600hp or more in this thread and it’s been here since 2011.
 
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