HELP! I'm running out of ideas

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You need to take a bunch of pics and post them. Fresh eyes. This suspension system is not overly complicated.
Tie rods, UCAs,LCAs, strut rods and steering linkage plus some k frame shots.
 
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Will do, I just purchased some new bearings and will install them as soon as I get some new dust seals for the discs. If that doesn't solve my problem I'll take detailed pictures of all the connections and mounting brackets like you suggested.
 
Was the car original when you got it?
Can you pull/push on the rotors and hubs and feel any movement?
 
No the car wasn't original when I bought it. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, it is a 67 barracuda with a 74+ disc brake conversion (larger upper balljoints). The previous owner must have made the changes to it because I also noticed it has torsion bars that are meant for a 383 car (0.89" I believe) and it had the larger 1.25" pitman shaft in the power steering box (not sure if that was stock for 67) so I wouldn't be surprised if they changed over most of the K-member when they did the conversion. I've driven it like that for years without issues.

When I lifted it up last night and felt for play I did feel a very little bit of movement when I press and pull at 6 - 12 o'clock positions.

I've taken the discs off and will be replacing all bearings and races (cheap insurance). This must be the issue, it really felt like the rim was loose on the spindle (bearing not making proper constant contact.)

I also checked the back of the disc for evidence of it not seating properly but the studs are no where near the contact surface.
 
attached is the picture of the front disc showing the recessed studs and the dust seal that I need to get out to remove the inner bearing and race.

IMG_1471.JPG
 
To get your seal out, put the rotor back on the spindle leaving the outer bearing out and screw the spindle nut on a couple threads. Now grab the rotor and pull it towards you a few times as you **** it slightly, the inner bearing will catch the nut and pull the seal out. Almost like a slide hammer effect.
 
How have you checked your alignment ? If your toe is way off, you could be dragging your wheels in a turn. I would get that done first . Wheel bearing problems are usually shown as a loose wheel from adjustment not being correct , or worn which you can see as pits in the bearing and race causing a noise that is audible that would match wheel speed. Differentials not releasing can cause problems if you have a limited slip on a turn , Wheels spin at a different rate in the rear and show up as a bad vibration during a turn. Angles will be different in the front on a turn with ackerman that could multiply an issue not showing up going straight.
 
The trick to get the dust seal off worked great. I took the bearings and the races out of the passenger side, and the inner bearing does feel a lot rougher than the new bearing. The races looked fine but I took them out any way. I'll have to get the new ones pressed in.

I'll take the drivers side out tomorrow and will replace the bearings on that one too, I might leave the races in those if they don't show any wear/pitting or heat discoloration.

I do have a sure-grip in the back, and I'm aware of the feeling of it going slowly through a tight turn, but this feels very different than the issue I'm having.

Regarding the type of rotors, I'm not sure those are the ones you mentioned. I recall measuring them not to long ago and I belief they were 11", but I'll confirm tomorrow.

As for the alignment, I am planning to have a professional alignment done when the new rims are in and the new leaf springs are installed. The current toe is in the ball park, so It isn't way out and definitely not enough to drag the wheel in a turn. But I'll measure. Thanks for all the feedback.
 
340duster340 said:
those are the HD late model 11.75" "cop" rotors.

doubt the bearings are the issue.
Click to expand...

They don't have to be 11 3/4 inch rotors to have the reinforcing ribs in them.
Many standard size 10.8 rotors have them.
Very common, nothing special to them at all.
 
yeah I measured them, they are 11" across.
i had the new races pressed in and I found dust seal, but they look different than the ones that came off. see below pictures.

The original looked like the first image. It gets pressed in the back of the disc and has a grease cavity.

The second image is what they gave me (both are listed for a 74+ a-body) it fits nice and tight around the spindle but is loose in the back of the disc. Is that okay, does it just seal it when the disc is put on the spindle and tightened?
 
67cuda360 said:
i had the new races pressed in and I found dust seal, but they look different than the ones that came off. see below pictures.

The original looked like the first image. It gets pressed in the back of the disc and has a grease cavity.

The second image is what they gave me (both are listed for a 74+ a-body) it fits nice and tight around the spindle but is loose in the back of the disc. Is that okay, does it just seal it when the disc is put on the spindle and tightened?
Click to expand...



The aftermarket grease seals look different, but work just as well. It should be a press fit & NOT loose in the disc though....
 
Yeah that's what I was afraid off, they definitely don't press in.
below are the pictures, first is the one that looks similar to what came out and the second is what they gave me (also listed under +74 a-body just different part number)

original.jpg


replacement.jpg
 
Don't worry about the visual appearance. The fit is MOST important....

See if you can find the Part # from your original seal & have it cross referenced by your parts supplier.
 
Jack the car up about 4-5 inches....take tire tool/lever and apply force (lifting) at 6 oclock with tool just under tire. Keep other hand on tire at 12 oclock & feel for movement...

Did you shake both sides w/the left-right movements?
 
*Possibly brake hoses kinking in turn(s), warped rotors causing kick...

Does the car shake any when in straight line slowing down <braking>?
 
Now THAT'S a description I can get on board with. I assume you have checked the front wheel bearings to make sure they are torqued properly and that they are good?

67cuda360 said:
Thank you for your constructive criticism "RustyRatRod" I actually think it is the perfect and most accurate description. If you can imaging what it would feel like to drive a car with broken or loose lug nuts. That's exactly what it feels like. It feels like the wheel is about to fall off, (it shake, wobbles, clunks from the front end when turning in and you also feel it in the steering wheel). I'm not sure how I can give a better description. But I appreciate your feedback.

Lower control arm bolt that goes through the K member is torqued to spec and so are the strut rod front and back bolts.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the dust seal on the back of the disc?
Click to expand...
 
I picked up the other dust seals and they worked perfectly, I installed new bearings (inner and outers) on both wheels but the problem still exists.

I tried what "eestatic" suggested and lifted the car, put a lever under the tire and moved it up at the 6 o clock position, while holding at the 12, but I can feel no movement.

I only feel the vibration/clunking when I turn into a longs sweeping turn like an off/on ramp or a clover leaf and only at speeds over 20. I tried turning tight circles in a parking lot, but I don't feel anything then. It is hard to tell if it only happens when turning right, pretty much every long sweeping turn around here is a right hander (off/on ramps etc.), so I'm not sure if it is only turning right.

I've had a local mechanic look at it earlier in the summer and he said all the ball joints and tie rods etc seemed fine, he pointed me to worn out strud rod bushings (which have since been replaced, along with all the other stuff I did).

I think my next move is to get a professional alignment done. If a tie rod was bad, I should be able to feel play when moving the tire side to side (push, pull at 3 and 9 positions) right? The problem does feel like I imagine a failed tie rod feels, like the wheel is trying to straighten itself when in a tight turn, causing the clunking/wobble/vibration feel I'm having.

Can a bad wheel alignment create this same sensation, but still track straight and feel normal even at highway speeds?

Anyway.... I am going to get my new rims and tires mounted and balanced, then I'm switching out my leaf springs and shocks in the back and then I'll get it aligned to the below max performance street alignment specs. (at least as close as I can get to it). Unless someone has better suggestions?

I appreciate the responses.

289d4j7.jpg
 
67cuda360 said:
I picked up the other dust seals and they worked perfectly, I installed new bearings (inner and outers) on both wheels but the problem still exists.

I tried what "eestatic" suggested and lifted the car, put a lever under the tire and moved it up at the 6 o clock position, while holding at the 12, but I can feel no movement.

I only feel the vibration/clunking when I turn into a longs sweeping turn like an off/on ramp or a clover leaf and only at speeds over 20. I tried turning tight circles in a parking lot, but I don't feel anything then. It is hard to tell if it only happens when turning right, pretty much every long sweeping turn around here is a right hander (off/on ramps etc.), so I'm not sure if it is only turning right.

I've had a local mechanic look at it earlier in the summer and he said all the ball joints and tie rods etc seemed fine, he pointed me to worn out strud rod bushings (which have since been replaced, along with all the other stuff I did).

I think my next move is to get a professional alignment done. If a tie rod was bad, I should be able to feel play when moving the tire side to side (push, pull at 3 and 9 positions) right? The problem does feel like I imagine a failed tie rod feels, like the wheel is trying to straighten itself when in a tight turn, causing the clunking/wobble/vibration feel I'm having.

Can a bad wheel alignment create this same sensation, but still track straight and feel normal even at highway speeds?

Anyway.... I am going to get my new rims and tires mounted and balanced, then I'm switching out my leaf springs and shocks in the back and then I'll get it aligned to the below max performance street alignment specs. (at least as close as I can get to it). Unless someone has better suggestions?

I appreciate the responses.

View attachment 1714982426
Click to expand...
Bad wheel alignment can create the sensation you describe. Negative caster can cause a shimmy at higher speeds. Like when you push a shopping cart really fast. Notice how the high caster angles correspond to the more aggressive driving.
 
Something I had not thought of until now. Check out the wheel weights on the rear of the front wheels. Depending on the offset, if the wheel weights are hitting the ball joints or control arms or outer tie rods on turns, that can put up one hell of a fuss. I've seen it a good bit. Will be easy to see, as the wheel weights will be beat all to hell and whatever they are hitting will have heavy witness marks.
 
I set it up to have as much positive caster as possible on both sides (matching the side that had the least max caster) and then re-adjusted to get the camber to match for both wheels. (all checked with the suspension settled etc.) I haven't measured the toe-in yet so that could be an issue although it looks pretty straight (I'm going to get in trouble for that one LOL).

One of the issues when I first installed (7 years ago) my 14" rims on the disc brake front end is that it shaved off the weights on my first drive LOL. So RustyRatRod, you are correct, those weight are definitely shaved off and were hitting the caliper causing them to shave the caliper shape out of the weights. But I have driven it with those weights on the vehicle for years without issues and this problem suddenly started last year.

My new tires and rims are finally mounted and balanced, so pretty soon I'll be able to rule those variables out.

Is it possible that a tie-rod end only starts having play under heavy load and not when you are normally turning the wheel etc.?

Before I take it in for the alignment I have decided to order new inner and outer tie rod ends and a new idler arm so at least I'll know that all front end parts are brand spanking new except for the pitman arm.
 
67cuda360 said:
I set it up to have as much positive caster as possible on both sides (matching the side that had the least max caster) and then re-adjusted to get the camber to match for both wheels. (all checked with the suspension settled etc.) I haven't measured the toe-in yet so that could be an issue although it looks pretty straight (I'm going to get in trouble for that one LOL).

One of the issues when I first installed (7 years ago) my 14" rims on the disc brake front end is that it shaved off the weights on my first drive LOL. So RustyRatRod, you are correct, those weight are definitely shaved off and were hitting the caliper causing them to shave the caliper shape out of the weights. But I have driven it with those weights on the vehicle for years without issues and this problem suddenly started last year.

My new tires and rims are finally mounted and balanced, so pretty soon I'll be able to rule those variables out.

Is it possible that a tie-rod end only starts having play under heavy load and not when you are normally turning the wheel etc.?

Before I take it in for the alignment I have decided to order new inner and outer tie rod ends and a new idler arm so at least I'll know that all front end parts are brand spanking new except for the pitman arm.
Click to expand...

I'm a little confused. if you have the ability to measure and set caster and camber, why don't you set the toe?
 
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