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new2muscle

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Have a few questions about a 360 that came extra with my car. Is there a way to tell what year it was from and if it's actually a 360? Everything is disassembled (freeze plugs are even out) would it be too much of a hassle to rebuild and use for a DAily driver or should I just get rid of that sucker?
 
Yes, look at the driver's side of the block. there is a casting number and the engine size follows. It will also have a date cast in there also of when the block was made.


Then on the passenger side front of the block just above the oil pan rail, there is a pad with an 8 digits. The first digit is the number for the model year vehicle it was put into.

Then on the front driver's side of the block, look just under the head surface. This is the numbers from the engine factory.

Let me prep some pictures for you and post back up in 15 minutes approx.
 
Ok, Here are some pictures to help you:

Here is the left side of the block showing the casting # and engine size:

View attachment 360 Left side B.jpg

Here is the casting # and engine size circled:

View attachment 360 Left side B2.jpg

Here is the front of the block:

View attachment 360 front face A01 B.jpg

Here is the front of the block with the engine factory info circled. This one is covered in paint, you may have to scrape some paint off of yours to read it. It is stamped into the block:

View attachment 360 front face A01 B2.jpg

Here is a view of the passenger (right) side of the block:

View attachment 360 Block rt side B.jpg

Here is a view of the passenger (right) side of the block with the Vin # in circle A (you may also have to scrape some paint off to read it like this one), and the casting date shown in circle B and the shift that the block was cast in circle C:

View attachment 360 Block rt side B2.jpg
 
new2muscle said:
Have a few questions about a 360 that came extra with my car. Is there a way to tell what year it was from and if it's actually a 360? Everything is disassembled (freeze plugs are even out) would it be too much of a hassle to rebuild and use for a DAily driver or should I just get rid of that sucker?
Click to expand...

Rebuild it.

Buy new pistons and get the compression between 9.0 or 9.5. Take in the heads and have the intake valves opened up to accept the 340 2.02" intake valves instead of the 360's 1.88". Port them a little if you wish.

You can get good deals on "refresh" kits from Mancini Racing. They sell just a kit with bearings, rings, and gaskets, to kits with bearings, rings, gaskets, and pistons for reasonable prices.

Here's the Mancini main page:

http://www.manciniracing.com/


Here's the Mancini page with the different engine kits:

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/enrebkit.html

Here's the Mancini page with the basic kit A with cast rings for $205:

Product Description
A-KIT Includes:

-Sealed Power Rod bearings

-Sealed Power Main bearings

-Felpro Gasket Set

-Sealed Power Rings (Cast)

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sealedpowerkit.html


Here's the Mancini page with the basic kit B with moly rings for $215:

Product Description
B-KIT Includes:

-Sealed Power Rod bearings

-Sealed Power Main bearings

-Felpro Gasket Set

-Sealed Power Rings (Moly)

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sealpowkitb.html


Here's the Mancini page with the basic kit C with cast pistons for $420 with:

Product Description
C-KIT Includes:

-Sealed Power Rod bearings

-Sealed Power Main bearings

-Sealed Power Cam Bearings

-Freeze Plugs

-Melling Oil Pump

-Felpro Gasket Set

-Sealed Power Rings (Moly)

-Sterling Pistons (Cast)

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sealpowkitc.html


Here's the Mancini page with the basic kit C with forged pistons for $750 with :

Product Description
D-KIT Includes:

-Sealed Power Rod bearings

-Sealed Power Mains bearings

-Sealed Power Cam Bearings

-Freeze Plugs

-Melling Oil Pump

-Felpro Gasket Set

-Sealed Power Rings (Moly)

-Sterling Pistons (Forged)

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sealpowkitd.html



Put in a nice cam with between 260° and 280° degrees duration. I recommend Rhoades lifters for better idle, low and mid range power, and increased idle vacuum. You will need part number 2018 for a stock hydraulic flat tappet cam. Here are the links for Rhoades lifters:

Rhoades main page:

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/

Rhoades part #'s:

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/PartNumber.html

Here's an article describing how they work (Look at the second one):

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Articles.html


You can get Rhoades lifters from Summit racing for $116:

Summit main page:

http://www.summitracing.com/


Here's the page with the Rhoades lifters:

http://www.summitracing.com/search/...e?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending



Then get a good dual plane intake. The old Edelbrock LD340 is the best one, but is no longer made. You may be able to find one in the for sale ads. If not, Wiand makes a nice dual plane intake with an RPM band from idle to 6000 RPM which is my next choice. Here is the Wiand intake that I recommend for the 600 CFM square bore intake:


CHRYSLER SMALL BLOCK STEALTH™ INTAKE MANIFOLD PART #: 8022 $227

Features
High Rise Dual Plane Design
Square Bore Carburetor Mounting Flange
No EGR Provisions
Power band: Idle-6800 RPM
Height: Front 4.88", Rear 5.94"
Port Size: 1.96” height 1.00" width


http://www.holley.com/8022.asp


Then top it off with a Holley 4bbl List #80457. It is the basic 1850 Holley 600 CFM vacuum secondary, but with an electric choke (which is good for winter and all round driving) and is calibrated for a late 60's V-8. You can get them at Mancini racing, last time I ordered one it was just under $290. Or you can get the Edelbrock 625 CFM carb with the electric choke from Mancini for about the same price. Whatever carb you are comfortable with is your choice.


This set-up will be great for a daily driver.
 
Wow. Talk about some great information. Thank you so much that was very very helpful. It is in fact a 360 and if I am right by what you gave me it is 3-3 of 77. I found myself getting giddy being out in the garage looking for that info ha. In light of the new information you have given me on rebuilding it I am definitely interested in rebuilding it. One of my biggest worries was not knowing where to even start. Thanks again. Also will I need to swap anything out to fit the 360 in? its a factory 318 in it already. My mind is still blown from reading all of that. ha.
 
furyrestored said:
it will bolt right up
Click to expand...

Almost. One of the engine mounting brackets is a different size than the 318. Sorry I forget which side. Karl probably knows. What side is different Karl?

And don't forget that 360's are externally balanced so you'll either have to buy a B&M or TCI flex plate that balances it or weld 360 weights on the torque converter.
 
new2muscle said:
Wow. Talk about some great information. Thank you so much that was very very helpful. It is in fact a 360 and if I am right by what you gave me it is 3-3 of 77. I found myself getting giddy being out in the garage looking for that info ha. In light of the new information you have given me on rebuilding it I am definitely interested in rebuilding it. One of my biggest worries was not knowing where to even start. Thanks again. Also will I need to swap anything out to fit the 360 in? its a factory 318 in it already. My mind is still blown from reading all of that. ha.
Click to expand...


To convert from a 318 to a 360 is easy. Only the left (driver's) side motor mount is different (the spread between the ears on the block is about 1/2" different). Some people shim the 318 motor mount, or you can order the right mounts.

You didn't say what year and model car that you are putting it in. I know that repro motor mounts are available from Mancini Racing for the early 72 and earlier style motor mount brackets. The 73 motor mounts changed to the "spool" type, so if you are putting in a 73 or newer car, you would need to order the 73 and later style spool mount for the car. Have it looked up as a 73 340 or 73-73 360.


Pretty much everything from a 318 will bolt onto a 360. Except for the crank and pistons and oil pans (360 has a different rear oil pan seal than the 273/318/340). However the 318 intake & heads have smaller ports, so you would want to use the 340 or 360 heads and have 2.02" intake valves installed if your heads don't already have them. It's no problem for a head machinist to do.

The timing chain covers and water pumps are interchangeable: cams, lifters, timing chains, fuel pumps, distributor gears, distributors.

You will also want to order the repro small block 340 throttle cable linkage bracket from Mancini Racing to use a 4 bbl intake and you may be able to adapt the stock 318 kickdown linkage to it.

The 360 has the longest stroke of all small block Mopars at 3.53" compared to the 273/318/340 at 3.31", which will give it more torque. Longer stroke = more torque. The main bearing journals are also larger on the 360 than the other three, so you cannot interchange the cranks form 360's to the other SB mopars, but the rods are the same length center to center. 340's came with floating piston pins, and 360's had press fit piston wrist pins. You can use either rod in the 360 depending on what pistons you use (floating pin vs press fit pin). The 273 & 318 used light duty rods.

318's usually come with the lighter duty 904 auto trans. 340's and most 360's came with the 727 torqueflite which has an extra set of clutches and is stronger. They will both bolt up to any small block mopar. The 360's have external balancing which makes the flex plate and torque converter unique to them also, but they are available. You need to keep that in mind when you buy your parts. The 727 is slightly longer and you will have to get the driveshaft shortened about 2" from the 904 driveshaft.

The 7 1/4" axle is not strong enough for a 360. You will have to make sure that you use either a 8 1/4 or the better 8 3/4 axle if you want it to stay together. To convert a car that came with a 7 1/4" axle to a 8 3/4" axle will also require to shorten the driveshaft about another 2". If you decide to upgrade, it's best to do both together so you only have to get your driveshaft shortened and balanced only once. :banghead:

Here are some charts to help you figure out axles:

View attachment Differential ID.jpg

View attachment rearaxledims.jpg


Lastly, I appreciate the "thanks" for the info. I've been into Mopars for over 33 years. I have given you "my recipe" for building a good street performance engine capable of daily driving. Some people may have different opinions which they are entitled to. I have given you how I have learned to do it for all of my years of experience. Let me know if you need any steps on rebuilding your engine, I can walk you through it.

If you try to put it into a 69 and earlier a-body, I can tell you how to set up the timing chain, vibration damper, and water pump to use the stock radiator outlets.


I'm glad that I have excited you to build the 360. They can run as good or even better than a 340 when built properly. I have listed alot of information, just keep reviewing it until it sinks in. Go at your own pace, don't be shy about asking questions. FABO gets to be like family and we like to help each other out whenever possible. There's alot of knowledge in all of the members. Hopefully you now have been bitten by the Mopar bug and will keep at it. :cheers:
 
fishy68 said:
Almost. One of the engine mounting brackets is a different size than the 318. Sorry I forget which side. Karl probably knows. What side is different Karl?

And don't forget that 360's are externally balanced so you'll either have to buy a B&M or TCI flex plate that balances it or weld 360 weights on the torque converter.
Click to expand...

I was working on that as you were posting. It's the driver's (left) side. The right side will interchange completely.

Thanks Tracy. :cheers:
 
How many times in one day can one's mind be blown?? wow. It is in fact going into a 73 Dodge Dart Sport,well,eventually going into it. I would have never even thought about the drive shaft and rear end at all let alone almost all of the other info. A lot of what I read makes me nervous. Shortening a driveshaft seems odd but I'm new ha. I like exactly how you told me how to build a 360,that is the best description of a build and the best info I have gotten since I purchased the car. All I get to hear about are Chevys all day long. I took some notes on your posts. How is a driveshaft shortened? is it just cut and welded? If i swapped rear ends does it just bolt right into where the old one came out or is there some sort of relocation that has to go on? How can I tell a difference between rear ends? Are they stamped with numbers like the blocks you showed me earlier? Do the B body rear ends use the same bolt pattern and if not can I purchase axles that share the same as my dart? I have so many questions AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!! I appreciate all the help. Expect to be annoyed with thousands of questions from me. Your chart says that some rear ends are found in trucks and vans,will they work the same or are they a different in any way that wouldn't allow me to use one? Thanks again
 
almost forgot,whoever pulled this motor apart didn't seem to mark the main caps from where they came off of. Is that going to be an issue for me in any way?
 
new2muscle said:
Shortening a driveshaft seems odd but I'm new ha. How is a driveshaft shortened?
Click to expand...

You have to look up a local driveline specialty shop in your area. They are still around for truck applications.

The way that I've done it in the past is call the shop that you decide to use. My shop tells me to put the engine/transmission and axle in the car. Then take the front yoke of the driveshaft (the front part that slips into the transmission) and slide it into the tail of the trans as far as it will go. Then with the rear end jacked up and supported by the axle (not the frame) so the rear leaf springs have the weight of the car on them, then measure from the centerline of the front U-joint to the centerline of the rear U-joint. Then they subtract 1" (for installation clearance) and that is the length you need for your driveshaft.

I once just gave the dimension to my driveline shop and they made me a whole new driveshaft "from scratch" including the u-joints and front yoke and balanced it. You can also take your old driveshaft in and they can shorten it and balance it with new u-joints.

Not something to do at home in your garage especially for a beginner. You have to have your driveshaft balanced or you will get a vibration.
 
new2muscle said:
almost forgot,whoever pulled this motor apart didn't seem to mark the main caps from where they came off of. Is that going to be an issue for me in any way?
Click to expand...

Nah, not a problem.

The caps have a number and arrow cast into the them to indicate their position, and which direction they face when installed.
 
new2muscle said:
almost forgot,whoever pulled this motor apart didn't seem to mark the main caps from where they came off of. Is that going to be an issue for me in any way?
Click to expand...

Yes, it may be an issue if you can't get them back in the proper order that they were originally on. Hopefully they didn't mix them up on the rods as it will be a little more difficult to piece them together (but possible if you like to do puzzles).

We should be able to figure out how they go back on. As long as they are the same set that came off of the engine.

Look on the top of the main bearing caps. On the four "skinny ones" there should be a number cast into the top of the cap on the outside. They should all be numbered 1-4. That is the order that they go on the engine. #1 goes in the front of the engine, then #2, and so on. On the middle main cap #3, you should look at the sides and see round machine marks on the front and rear face of the cap. This cap is the one for the thrust bearing that keeps the crank from going back and forth especially under heavy loads. The big "fat" known as the rear main bearing cap goes on the rear of the block.

The rear main bearing cap can only go on one way. Now take the other caps and turn them over and look at the side where the bearings go. On one side you will see a "notch", this is called the anchor slot. The purpose of the anchor slot is to keep the bearings from rotating in the engine (it can cut off your oil supply to the rest of the engine if they spin). Now look at the block and see what side of the main bearing "rib" that the anchor slot is on in the block. Now put the caps on in the proper order #1 in front and #4 on the last one before the rear main bearing cap with the anchor slots for the caps and the block together on the same side (called lining up the anchor slots). This keeps the slots opposing each other and prevents the bearings from spinning.

You always line up the anchor slots on the same side for all main bearing caps and connecting rods and caps.

Also note at the top of the main bearing ribs in the block, there is a hole. These holes feed the oil to the cam bearings and then to the lifters, and finally go to the head to oil the rocker arms.

Also before you take the block to the machine shop, take pictures of it from all angles. You will want to document the oil galley plugs which I will address on another post.

Ok, here's more pictures to help you get this:

Here is the main bearing cap set (main caps for short):

View attachment Main caps A02 B.jpg

Here they are with the cap #'s circled:

View attachment Main caps A02 B2.jpg

Here's another shot with the flash on:

View attachment Main caps A03 B2.jpg

Here's a picture of the bearing face showing the anchor slot:

View attachment Anchor Slot B.jpg

Here is the same picture with the anchor slot circled:

View attachment Anchor Slot B2.jpg

Here's a shot of the bottom of the caps showing the bearing face:

View attachment Main caps A06 B.jpg

Here's the bearing face with the anchor slots circled:

View attachment Main caps A06 B2.jpg

Here's a side view of two main caps:

View attachment Main caps side A05 B.jpg

Here's that same picture with the machining for the thrust face circled. This is the thrust bearing cap #3 and goes in the middle (the block will have matching radius machining on the main block ribs):

View attachment Main caps side A05 B2.jpg

Here's a picture of the top of the caps with the thrust cap machined radius circled. Notice it is cap #3:

View attachment Main caps side A04 B2.jpg


Note: There was a running change sometime in mid '74 where they increased the radius of the thrust face machining to improve thrust face wear on the thrust bearings. Your engine being a '77 will take the bearings for the larger thrust face radius. From what I've seen, they started machining the thrust face early on some blocks before '74 (like some '73's).
 
Since I don't know how my scanner works, I took some pictures of some good information out of an old edition of "How to rebuild your small block Mopar" book. They took the information and ID section out of the latest editions. I also took close up views of the top and bottom of each section as I don't know it you will be able to read the picture of the whole page when posted. You can also right click on the pictures and save them to a folder in your hard drive, then right click on them in the folder and open them up in Paint and zoom in on the info. Excuse the oil stains, this book has seen alot of use:

Here's how to decode the VIN number for the vehicle in the driver's side of the dashboard:

Here's a picture of the whole page with the flash on:

View attachment VIN ID A01 B2.jpg

Here's a picture of the whole page with the flash off:

View attachment VIN ID A03 B2.jpg

Here's a close up view of the top portion:

View attachment VIN ID top B.jpg

Here's a close up view of the bottom portion:

View attachment VIN ID bottom B.jpg

Here's a view of the page that tells you how to decode the engine factory information stamped in the front of the block just under the head (shown in my previous post):

View attachment Engine ID A01 B2.jpg

Here's a close up view of the top portion:

View attachment Engine ID top B.jpg

Here's a close up view of the bottom portion:

View attachment Engine ID bottom B.jpg

Now you can get all giddy again and go check out what you have and figure it all out!!! Have fun!
 
Ok here's the first of two posts on the oil galley plugs as it is too big to put all in one post.

These two are in the front of the block that go behind the camshaft thrust plate. Some people claim that their engines did not come with them (even from the factory), and say that you do not need them.

On the very first engine that I rebuild, a 340, the machine shop did not install these after doing the machine work. I would start the engine and only get 25 psi cold and it would drop below 10 psi when warm idling at 1000 RPM. After pulling the engine 4 times, I took some advice from an "old timer" with lots of experience. He told me to spin the oil pump with a priming shaft and look for oil gushing out and that is where you are loosing your pressure. I finally found it was coming out from behind the camshaft thrust plate. When I removed it, the plugs were not there. I put them in and the pressure was back above 55 psi cold start and when warm. So to me, I swear by these and always check to make sure that they are installed. I do not trust the camshaft thrust plate to hold them from leaking and loosing pressure. Some people say that they are not needed, They can do what they want with their engines. I strongly recommend that you use them from my experience, I would rather be safe than sorry. How would you like to suddenly loose oil pressure while driving down the road someday.

Mancini racing also sells a "kit" with all of the oil galley plugs and all of the freeze plugs to replace all of them in the engine. The oil galley plugs behind the camshaft thrust plate are not commonly stocked by parts stores and can be difficult to find in some parts stores. Like I said, call Mancini...

OK here is the two oil galley plugs behind the camshaft thrust plate:

View attachment 360 front face A01 B2.jpg

Here is a close up view of them:

View attachment 360 front face A03 B2.jpg

Here is a view showing the oil galley plug behind the oil filter plate or oil filter adapter on the passenger (right) side of the block:

View attachment 360 oil galley plug filter A02 B2.jpg
 
Karl, you're actually bein useful. I thought all you were good for was cutting the fool.
 
Ok, lets see if I can get the rest of them in on this post:


Here is a picture of the oil galley plug for the left (driver's) side lifter bank shown through the hole for the distributor in the top rear of the block:

View attachment 360 rear cam oil galley A01 B2.jpg

Here is a closer view with it circled:

View attachment 360 rear cam oil galley A02 B2.jpg

Here is an even closer view with the plug circled, note the relationship to the brass bushing for the distributor drive gear that rides off of the camshaft gear and goes through the bushing down to the oil pump.

When Asa, Cliff, and I built Cliff's 360 his machine shop did not have the right size plug for this hole, so they tried to use a reducer bushing and then a smaller plug. The reducer stuck too far out and interfered with the gear on the distributor drive gear/shaft. We had to remove the reducing bushing and plug and install the proper size plug. Good thing that I brought one of the Mancini Racing freeze plug/ oil galley plug kits with me. There is a clearance plug in the back of the plug to get access to it, I will show in the next pictures below:

View attachment 360 rear cam oil galley A03 B2.jpg

Here is a picture of the rear face of the block where the trans bolts to. I have circled all of the "plugs of interest". The one on the top left is the access plug for the driver's side lifter galley plug shown above (this is the only one that doesn't see oil pressure).

The big one between these two is the plug for the back of the camshaft tunnel.

The one on the top right is the oil galley plug for the right side lifter galley.

The one on the bottom right goes to the oil filter:

View attachment 360 rear face A02 B2.jpg

Here again is a close up of the two top plugs in the rear of the block. The one on the left is the non-pressure access plug to get to the left side oil galley plug. The one on the right is for the right side oil galley and sees pressure:

View attachment 360 rear face A03 B2.jpg

This is a close up of the lower rear plug that feeds to the oil filter (sees pressure):

View attachment 360 rear face A04 B2.jpg

"That's all folks". There are all of the oil galley plugs.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Karl, you're actually bein useful. I thought all you were good for was cutting the fool.
Click to expand...

LOL!


Stay tuned and we can argue over what camshaft he should use.... :D



However, I'm gonna take me a break. Between this thread and Memike's thread, I've been busy tonight. :happy6:


And to new2muscle: Save your original camshaft if it came with your engine, you may want to consider using it if it is still in good shape.
 
Here's a link for a LD340 for sale. It's a good price, but he doesn't give any pictures. Like I stated earlier, this is the best dual plane intake for the SB mopar. If it is in good shape, grab it, it won't last long at this price before someone picks it up if it's in good condition.

I can give you pictures of good ones if you need for comparison, just holler.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=268915


I just posted up in his thread asking him to give you first dibs, so hopefully he will honor my request. Please let him know ASAP if you do or do not want it, so he can sell it to someone else if you are not interested. If you are interested in it, jump on it.
 
Please stop using this chart. It's full of bad info.

attachment.php



It's one thing in the Mopar world that could be nuked from the internet.

Want good info. Go Here
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/16.html
 
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